Ep 112 · 1:08:13
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Research use only
Any compounds discussed may be intended for research purposes only. Nothing here is a protocol to follow — amounts, timing and cycle lengths are reported as the named speaker described them.
We are not doctors. Use at your own risk.
0:13Speaker 0was scientifically designed to help move fluids into the body faster for rapid rehydration.
0:21Speaker 0Hydrates faster than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration.
0:38Speaker 1Welcome back to the Peptide of the Week podcast. I'm your host, JD Dental. Across the way to my left a little bit is my
0:46Speaker 2cohost, my brother, mister William T. Haas. What's up, dude? What's up, man? It's good to be here. Yeah. It's good to be here. We got a guest here. We were up early.
1:07Speaker 2I was like, we'll do 7. Yeah. Yeah. That sounded better, but I still I got him. What do wanna do after? He didn't he was probably sleeping, but without further ado, we got somebody.
1:16Speaker 1Most people that watch this podcast, I'm sure, know who Josh Holyfield is. We know who he is. We see him all over the internet.
1:24Speaker 1And, you know, we all live in the same realm. You know, I say it all the time. We don't compete with anybody. We want to sit down with people and learn from each other, have rad conversations.
1:33Speaker 1I've already done 1 podcast with with them. We lifted this morning. Josh and I have been talking up a storm.
1:39Speaker 1It's been great. I've already learned a lot, but I'm ready to sit down for 1 more podcast with you, my brother. Welcome to the Peptide of the Week podcast. Thank you for the invite, man. Appreciate being here. Yeah. So for the people that don't know you, unless they've been probably living under a rock, tell us a little bit about who you are.
1:56Speaker 3I'm a washed up fitness coach who had to figure out a way to make his business grow. And so I decided to teach people how to do peptides.
2:14Speaker 3So I've gotten some great results, build a phenomenal audience and community around helping men specifically.
2:21Speaker 3And when the peptide things, you know, the peptides really started to come out, people had questions. Do I use this? What is this?
2:28Speaker 3And what I observed was that these companies, especially, you know, the TRT clinics that kind of got onto the 1st wave,
2:35Speaker 3they were selling this stuff and didn't even know what it did. They're selling it for a lot. They're selling it for a lot. Right. And
2:43Speaker 3the company that I was partnered with at the time, I kind of learned number 1, they're prescribing stuff that these people don't really need. And
2:56Speaker 3Yes. Literally. I'm calling the police. Like, you've been making what off of these people? $4,500
3:18Speaker 3middle of last year, '25. That wasn't that long ago. And so what I started doing was long form
3:44Speaker 3you know, if I watch this video, it's gonna give me all the information I need to make the most informed decision for myself on whether this is a good fit. Trent.
4:00Speaker 2in a voice that people can understand or should be able to. And that was kinda exactly like that was exactly
4:06Speaker 3what I was going for. Right? It was, okay, like, this is nerd stuff. Mhmm. I have to use a dictionary to figure out what this means and translate it for these people. Right. And
4:23Speaker 3And you create this environment where people are getting this information just pushed at them from every angle.
4:30Speaker 3They don't know who to believe, what to believe, how things work, what's right, who's right and wrong. And
4:36Speaker 3it's just getting worse. Oh man. It's like crazy now. So my goal was, Hey, like this is what this does.
4:42Speaker 3Let me give you the ability to make an informed decision in a distilled way that you can easily understand. Sure.
4:56Speaker 3How did that happen then? I love helping people. Right? Like my thing is I went through a period of my life where I kind of lost myself.
5:08Speaker 3the, you know, the progression of a man over time as he settles, he gets fat. He kind of talks about his glory days. And then he wakes up 1 day in his mid thirties or forties. He's like, what the hell happened? What do I do? Right? So that was me.
5:22Speaker 3Except it happened to me when I was in my late twenties instead. So I got a, you know, ahead of a lot, a lot of guys went through a divorce and
5:30Speaker 3a lot of the lessons that I was learning going through that and, you know, self discovery and reflection I shared with the internet.
5:37Speaker 3And I realized that I wasn't alone in my problems despite the fact that I felt alone. Right.
5:43Speaker 3And we had built a community around like dudes empowering other dudes and helping each other overcome these things holding each other accountable and becoming better men. Yeah. Right. And
6:00Speaker 3I would just sell workout programs to help dudes for like $20 a pop. Like it wasn't anything crazy and
6:12Speaker 3spirit of that community was I had a guy come in and say, Hey, you know, you can charge much higher prices for coaching, right? High ticket.
6:19Speaker 3And I'm like, oh really? He's like, you can charge thousands of dollars for this thing and people will pay you.
6:25Speaker 3And so I drank that Kool Aid and the next thing you know, I turned in, turned from a guy who just genuinely wanted to help people into this asshole was trying to make money on the internet.
6:35Speaker 1I call it the invisible line. It was a lot of places they crossover and you don't see it.
6:52Speaker 3ego and arrogance kind of led my business to a place where I was about this close to going back to work.
6:59Speaker 3And that was at the same time as this kind of, I call it the peptide gold rush. Yeah. Pretty much where I was like, I gotta change what I'm doing.
7:09Speaker 3So you know what, enough of telling people how they should live and who they should be and what they should do with their lives.
7:26Speaker 3I was in a position in my life at the time where I was working 7 days a week behind a computer,
7:36Speaker 3at least 14 hours a day. I would wake up, sit down at my desk and I wouldn't get up. We do. I've been there. And I
8:02Speaker 3I'm very selective about the clients that I take. And we've built a model where I have a team of qualified guys that do a lot of the day to day on it.
8:10Speaker 3I'm really glad that I was able to get out to it because it gives me the ability to create more of an exponential reach in the world.
8:16Speaker 1Because we all know sitting here that it's not about the peptides. I mean, some people like everybody wants it now. They want to inject something and be skinny and ripped. And, know, to a degree, you know, Retrutide came along and it's kind of helps a little bit, but
8:32Speaker 1every man sitting here knows that it's not like that. Got to do work on the base. We will and I talking about the base all the time, which is
8:43Speaker 1exercise. You got to have these things, man. You got to build this base. Like everybody wants to build the 3rd Floor
8:48Speaker 1without building the base. You know what I mean? And like maybe the red will help them a little bit, but they come off it. You're not working on the base. You know what I mean? It's
9:00Speaker 1It's to change your life. You know what I mean? So like with you at that background mean that background will have the same background. We know that that's the most important part, which is
9:21Speaker 2We see the best results from people who write in the Q and A's are like, all right, I failed. I tried and failed and did this and now I've learned and then I know all this research. I know all these things about these things. Right? It's like that just is what it is. It is just you have to sit back, do enough research, spend enough effort
9:46Speaker 3shift that's happening in the health industry writ large and as far as Western medicine is concerned is
9:52Speaker 3people are starting to take responsibility for their own health. Sure. Which is great. And I think that's the greatest thing. It's weird to say anything has happened in terms of the positive
10:04Speaker 3mainstream is people are now realizing like, I have to take ownership of this. It's my responsibility to be healthy and make those decisions.
10:13Speaker 3Absolutely. And I'm seeing it more and more like comments on the YouTube channel where they're like, thank you so much for this video. You confirmed my research.
10:22Speaker 3Cool. Or, Hey, I was doing this research over here and I saw this. What are your thoughts? And
10:31Speaker 3it's not about your ego, like, is this influencer right or is that guy right? It's like, hey, what are your thoughts on this study that just came out? How does this change the landscape in terms of the way that we look at these things to help us optimize? Well, I've seen you do what we've done. I've seen you like
10:47Speaker 1do videos where like, said it was this when I was actually, I've realized that it's this because listen,
10:53Speaker 1if you watch our videos in the beginning, it's, there was different stuff that we said about Tesamorelin. I mean, like, are not gods. We don't even pretend to act like we know everything. We are learning.
11:11Speaker 1seeing countless people try these things and have firsthand knowledge? I know it reads like that, but I've actually seen it to be a little bit different over here. You know what I mean?
11:20Speaker 1That's so priceless, you know? And we were talking about it before we started recording, which is
11:32Speaker 1you were talking about a doctor if they just did this, this and this, and I'd be like, find me that doctor, I'd go to see him. But,
11:47Speaker 1the ones that are realizing peptides are here to stay and they're starting to learn or the train's coming, it's going to pass them up because I don't think that you're going to completely push Western medicine aside completely, but I think it's a big part of it because these things are amino acids, man. They're,
12:04Speaker 1you want to take a statin or you want to take an amino acid, you know what I mean? Why do you think that some of the doctors, I've asked this before, some other guests, why do you think some doctors
12:15Speaker 1have seen some of the things that they've seen? They've realized that probably this medication isn't the best to prescribe to people, whether it be a statin. I don't know. Why do you think they keep prescribing it?
12:29Speaker 3Know that- Are they so programmed? I can't speak to the intention of people, but I I'm gonna say what I'm gonna say is that
12:38Speaker 3it's very, it's more, very, very rare that you'll find somebody that operates in their life with pure malicious intent.
12:48Speaker 3Know, I think most people generally speaking have a tendency to try to do what they believe is right. Sure.
13:09Speaker 3doesn't put enough accountability back on the doctors to be examples of what they're promoting. Right?
13:25Speaker 3You know, the question that you should be asking if you approach your doctor is, do I want to look like this guy? I say it all the time when I was doing Finnish. Does your doctor, how does he look? Is he ripped? Why are gonna listen to him then? Exactly. So if you go to your doctor and, you know, and
13:42Speaker 3because somebody has letters next to their name doesn't necessarily mean they're qualified to do something.
13:47Speaker 3Right? You know, that just means that you're able to pass a test and go to school. And
13:53Speaker 3I think now in today's world, we're in an era of truth where information is freely available and that's not the limiting factor. Right?
14:02Speaker 3So you're right. I think to answer your question, like I said, I don't think the doctors are inherently doing it intentionally. What they're doing is what they know. And
14:12Speaker 3so many people are just so old and set in their ways that they believe everything they say. And not just that, but you also take that and you pair it on top of the monetary incentives that go on top of doctors through pharmaceutical companies and
14:25Speaker 3insurance companies placing pressure upon them. They have their, their, there are specific guidelines that prevent them from describing certain things.
14:43Speaker 3are driven by profit rather than helping people. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And so if I was to kind of summarize all that, I think the
14:56Speaker 3it's the fact that we have the insurance in the health insurance industry and the medical industry are married
15:09Speaker 2some color to that point, we were sitting here with Trevor Cruder who owns several pharmacies and
15:32Speaker 2success rates and then you got a drug that's showing 94 percent, right? This 95 percent is a 100 times more expensive
15:43Speaker 2Yeah. It's 5 percent of that. The actual laws say that the only the 1 that has showing the absolute best potential
15:50Speaker 2gets moved on in the trial. The other 1 just gets dropped, scrapped. We don't wanna hear about it. There's no taking,
15:57Speaker 2like, shit, this is I mean, come on now. This is pretty damn this is almost the same. But man, will it save everybody some money? They just get by. And only this 1 gets to proceed.
16:12Speaker 3powers that be have created and it's all financial. Well, to be to be fair too, you also have a situation where the the organizations that are being
16:45Speaker 3And there was a there I did a video on this a couple months ago. I think there was like an
17:07Speaker 3companies. It's broken. And it's interestingly enough is what happens when these FDA guys,
17:13Speaker 3you know, graduate, retire, move on. 9 times out of 10, they're going to the boards of these big companies like Pfizer. Absolutely.
17:20Speaker 3And so again, there there's this connection between the healthcare industry in the healthcare industry, it's healthcare
17:36Speaker 3in my opinion, I think that, the government has a a fucking big problem to deal with when it comes to peptides and they don't know what to do. Right.
17:46Speaker 3That's what this thing- Trains coming, whether you like it or not, dude. Exactly. Like, how do we integrate
17:50Speaker 3this? Because it's not going away. And their knee jerk reaction is, okay, we need to shut this down, tighten up customs, put pressure on China on exports. Like we saw that over the last 6 months. And
18:06Speaker 3you either they're they have now come to the realization, I believe, that this train is coming and they're not stopping it. So
18:14Speaker 3the next question we're ask is how do we control it? Absolutely. And it's just like pot.
18:24Speaker 3They're getting their tax money on it. I'm My assessment is that, and it's maybe different than a lot of people is there is gonna be much more scrutiny on these research based companies that are selling for research use only.
18:36Speaker 3They're gonna be held to a much higher standard when it comes to that in terms of purity as well as, you know, a chain of custody of sourcing, I think is gonna be a big thing. Which is not a bad thing. That's good. Don't disagree.
18:48Speaker 1needs to be checked upon. You know? There's people that are not doing things right. They're just hoping to God they're getting shit from China and it
19:14Speaker 3Right? Where doctors are going to be put into a position where they can more openly have conversations with their patients about these things. Well, that'd be great. That'd be awesome. Right? Because there is a certain
19:30Speaker 3a doctor has when he has a patient come in and say, Hey, I'm taking this list of research chemicals
19:37Speaker 3If he condones it and then this guy flops over and dies, now this guy's got a malpractice suit So on his
19:54Speaker 1you know how people are. So I was song and dance right now. Everybody's like zigging or zigging and zagging,
20:07Speaker 2because you're right. Nobody wants I mean, there there is that huge factor. Well, here's an example, right? So I own a telemedicine company and,
20:24Speaker 3that may not that that that that can't that aren't typically prescribed for like a certain treatment. Low
20:35Speaker 0Gatorade 0 powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors, great tasting hydration no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide.
20:52Speaker 0better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist. And the the rule is is I have to get
21:02Speaker 3the patient to sign a document that basically says, I understand that this is a, you know, basically a a trial. We're doing research here. This treatment is not,
21:18Speaker 3right? Like you're almost assigning yourself up for 1 of those, you know, you're watching the movies. There's this special Yeah. Treatment for cancer that may save my life. Should I do it? Right? Like, so you have to sign that document
21:35Speaker 3And so there are certain things that we can do to kind of give ourselves more freedom, but I think you're right. Like there has to be a certain,
21:43Speaker 3at what point is the health of a, is the care of a patient, their responsibility, the patient's responsibility instead of the doctors. And
21:50Speaker 3I think that's the big question when it comes to these things where people have to be saying, have to be willing to say, yeah, I chose to take that. The doctor didn't tell me to take it. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah. Good job. Good. So you do, you do a lot of consultations with people. I do like fitness consultations. So I guess we talked about this beforehand, but,
22:08Speaker 2what are some, well, let me just looking at blood work, what are some of the most common, I don't know, issues that you are seeing with men and women?
22:30Speaker 3Bottom line. Hormone optimization is part of that, but I don't I wouldn't consider it a foundation. I think it's part of the sleep and the nutrition. Right?
22:39Speaker 3Most of the time you solve the problems related to sleep and nutrition mostly, and the hormones kind of fall in place. Sure. Right? Yeah. You posted something recently about that. Yeah. I was actually, I watched it and go, oh, it's actually interested. I'll talk to you about that. And so, I've personally found that
23:04Speaker 3is not a confirmation test to know whether or not this guy actually has kidney failure.
23:09Speaker 3And they're, they're not trained on the pathology and how to understand what these labs are saying.
23:14Speaker 3So you'll get a guy with like elevated LDL. And we talked about this this morning. Be tough 1.
23:20Speaker 3If you're L- you have elevated LDL and you're on the keto or carnivore diet, that's expected. Yeah.
23:27Speaker 3Yeah. If you have elevated LDL and you're on Reta, that's expected. Why? Because your liver is and,
23:48Speaker 3And most of the time it's, it's a problem that's related to just diet and sleep. Sure.
23:55Speaker 3Right? So for the men, I would say that the cholesterol is a big thing. Okay. Okay. So if you have high cholesterol and
24:12Speaker 3Because APOB is actually showing you the quality of the LDL. Yeah. Because it's not the cholesterol, it's inflammation. That's what you're And the other, the other biomarker you want to look at, most doctors don't test for is your CRP,
24:28Speaker 3And there are actually studies in place that show that elevated LDL is not as good of a predictor as elevated
24:37Speaker 3Sure. Because it doesn't tell the whole picture. But exactly. And it's not, but it's more expensive to test for.
24:47Speaker 1And that's it. And then they're throwing this guy on a statin. Yeah. And then they're creating all these other problems with ATP
24:54Speaker 3production, their ability to process and methylate B vitamins. Right. And now they're creating like these downstream effects that are causing
25:06Speaker 3I mean, don't. I think that the standard practice is because that's what they've been taught. So with high LDL, he needs to go on a statin because we have this guideline of it can't exceed a 100 or a 120 or whatever. Crazy. Right?
25:38Speaker 290%. When I say, when you're looking at all the, what do you think that, what is the average,
25:43Speaker 2don't know, total testosterone and free testosterone you're seeing? Between 3 and 500.
25:49Speaker 3Not 0.5 The prescribing guidelines for testosterone replacement therapy are no greater than 400. Yeah. Most doctors are looking for around 3 50.
26:11Speaker 3So common. But then the very next question I'll ask a guy is, okay, you have low testosterone. What's your sleep habit? Yeah. You're
26:20Speaker 1That's how does a doctor not like, that should be the 1st thing a doctor asks, how are you sleeping? Somebody pass,
26:25Speaker 3what do you do for a living? Is it stressful? Exactly. You know what I mean? And then the next question after that is okay, well, much protein are you consuming every day? Yeah, totally. From lean sources of animal
27:02Speaker 3Right? Because their aromatase activity increases because they're overweight, so all the testosterone that they're producing.
27:14Speaker 1And this is coming from a guy who sells TRT. Yeah, you would say, let's play that out for a 2nd. Yeah. You have a gentleman that's 43.
27:25Speaker 1he sleeps like shit. So your, your approach with that guy would be let's fix his sleep 1st.
27:31Speaker 2Thousand percent. Yes. I would agree. So the question like this, but the person was 60 pounds overweight.
27:52Speaker 3So this is kind of the problem that you have is all these, they compound onto each other. Sure. So like I sleep like shit because I'm stressed out at work. I've
28:00Speaker 3got the kids. Right. Next thing you know, I'm, my testosterone is lowering. I'm getting fatter now that I'm tired. Right? I do less and it's like I'm fat because I eat and I eat because I'm fat. And the interesting thing about this is you guys may not know this. This is gonna kind of really send this into the outfield is do you know where or what the raw material is for testosterone in your testicles?
28:28Speaker 3you have these doctors that are prescribing these statins to fat guys who have high BP and LDL who are active and they're eating poorly.
28:36Speaker 3Their testosterone's already low because they're aromatizing all. And then what we're gonna do is we're gonna go ahead and take away the raw materials for 1 thing that they could use to break themselves out of that situation. And then here comes a world of problems. Right? And so these problems all compound on each other. And you're absolutely right. Like 1 of the band aid solutions that we can apply is, okay, well, let's just give this guy testosterone. But
28:59Speaker 3if we just throw that band aid on top of it and we don't use that as a catalyst or a tool to push this guy towards the habits that he needs to apply to fix it. Sure. Let's talk about that.
29:15Speaker 1would always say, you need to like look into these GLP-1s and I was doing fitness training at the time. I'm like, dude, I'm fit. I'm good. I don't need You're not disciplined. And I preach discipline.
29:23Speaker 1Yeah. And I really felt like that. And then like we did, we started a company and I had to like start to study this stuff and I'm like, this sounds freaking amazing, you know?
29:33Speaker 1But if you have somebody that doesn't have discipline, right? They're overweight and let's just, it is what it is. And this is gonna be the stake of the Cerebrolysin is gonna be the catalyst to get that snowball spinning down stills in that. Now when they go to the gym, they see themselves losing weight and you know how it is, I want more of this. And then they start eating right and then the testosterone
29:56Speaker 1we gave him some testosterone, it doesn't have to be in perpetuity, like it could be for a bit, you can come off of it, you know that. And like, what if we did that at 1st? Because within a few weeks, he's feeling really good. You know, he's, you know, a few weeks he's good and losing the weight's a lot easier because we know that. So that's how I would kind of go about it. So that kind of contradicts what you were doing. That's exactly how it that's the conversation I have with the guys who are overweight. Okay.
30:28Speaker 3guy who works for me on the TRD clinic side comes over. He's like, hey, can you look at look at these labs? He sends it over.
30:41Speaker 3And he's like, well, he wants the test. What do we do? I said, I want you to explain to him what's happening, basically what I just explained to you and say, we will prescribe the testosterone.
31:13Speaker 3other things. Yeah. Right? And that's what most of these telemedicine clinics are doing. And what's happening is they're just creating a bigger problem for this guy. Sure. Because what happens when you give a fat guy who's eating poorly more testosterone than he's converting into estrogen?
31:30Speaker 3Right? We call that bitch dude. So you're not fixing the problem for him unless you give him the tools that he needs to succeed. And I think that's probably the most important. It's that whole, like you can lead a horse to water. You know what I mean? Hope to God.
31:44Speaker 1Some people are just going to never drink. It is what it is, but hopefully if we can just give them the damn water, they're at least tempted enough because once they
31:56Speaker 3you know, and that's where the inspiration stuff comes in. That's the coaching. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, at the same time, man, I'm also a huge fan of Darwin,
32:10Speaker 3The weak take themselves out. I will show up with compassion. I'll educate you. I'll teach you. I will show up with love and give you all the grace that you need so that you can feel because I know what it feels like to be.
32:23Speaker 3And I hate to bring in, you know, the depressing side into this to be ready to end it all overweight,
32:29Speaker 3depressed. Why am I here? This sucks. And I know how hard it is to pull yourself out of the depths of that
32:35Speaker 3and pick yourself up and then have to go face the fact that you're a fat slob in the gym
32:40Speaker 3and show up and everyone's watching you. It's hard. Yeah. I've been there. Right? So I will walk you through that and I'll hold your hand and we'll go through that fire together.
32:50Speaker 1But if you're not ready to help yourself, you deserve it. I want to tap on that for a 2nd. So if that's you out there, you're listening.
33:02Speaker 1and you don't want to go to the gym because you're intimidated by the gym, here's what you don't get. The people that go to the gym are going to support you. They are going to lift you up, dude. They're at the gym. They're not going be like, You're going to the gym. Maybe a couple of dickheads, but you know what I mean? They're going to the gym too. They're going be like, Yeah, bro, you're losing weight. So if that's a fear, which I know it is,
33:20Speaker 1go to the gym and you're gonna find your people. They're gonna I'm telling you guys, you're gonna find your people. They're not gonna dog on you. They're gonna lift you up. Hey man, why don't you do it this way? This might work better.
33:40Speaker 3talking about my microphone. Very true. I'm I'm stoked for somebody who comes into the gym, isn't it? I'm like, hell yes. Good for you. Hell yeah. Saying what's up? Absolutely. We're all there because we want the same thing, dude. Yeah. And if I see somebody in the gym showing up every day overweight and they're struggling, dude, I personally walk up and I say, hey, you know what, I see you here. Hell yeah. I just wanna let you know you're doing awesome and you should keep going. I mean? Yeah. What I mean. Going to find the,
34:08Speaker 3And I promise you, just like we were talking on the last podcast, the people who are your biggest supporters on your journey,
34:14Speaker 3most of the time aren't even the people, you know, it's a virtue that They're gonna be strangers. Right. And not just that, but also on the other side of the coin,
34:27Speaker 1Yeah. So yeah, because we did. And like, it's just like the same thing with like alcoholics or whatever. Like if you're overweight and then you bust your ass, even if you take some Retta and get on testosterone,
34:37Speaker 1everybody's doing it. Right? It's gonna help you. Right? Who cares? Like, that's not a bad thing and you get in great shape.
34:47Speaker 1Turn around and show other people how to do it. That's the purpose. That is literally empowerment. So
34:59Speaker 1and we think that's the objective, but it's not. It's to show others, plural, to fix yourselves.
35:05Speaker 1You know what I mean? And like, we're all sitting here. We love it. We could sit about here and talk about peptides. We talk about nutrition. We can talk about gear for hours. You know what I mean? Very easy.
35:18Speaker 1we've all been through some shit and like, we want to like pass on this stuff and we've studied it. We've learned this stuff because we've studied it. Like, if you're listening to this
35:30Speaker 1like just because dude on the internet or wherever you're getting your stuff from says this,
35:34Speaker 2make sure you check it, study it, read it, try it, like figure it out, And worked out with it and ate right with it and not ate right within. We understand what happens when you do everything with it. And put our work in.
35:47Speaker 2Speaking of, unless you want to add anything, I'm curious to hear, well, I'm actually curious. What's your, let's all round table it. Like, what's your favorite couple
35:59Speaker 3Alright. So testosterone is the base always. Yeah. Testosterone scipioneate is fine. You don't have to go crazy with any, like, old school, like, sustenance.
36:14Speaker 3Yep. Okay. Cool. Okay. So the best way to do those long Ester drugs, especially when you're talking about
36:22Speaker 3do the long Ester drugs daily. Yeah. You never wanna do the short Ester ones. Those are ones that are gonna create the most
36:34Speaker 3The typically for bodybuilders, the time that they're gonna use an acetate or like a short is,
36:39Speaker 3you know, days before their show for specific fine tuning. Yeah. Yep. For building or off-site, off season, it's all long and stress. Yeah. So sipping 8,
36:55Speaker 3again, this isn't TRT, right? Yeah, yeah. Kind of draw the line, run-in some gear. Be honest about, be honest with yourself about what you're doing.
37:24Speaker 3kind of in the school that I don't think Primo is as good as people say it is just because it's so mild.
37:53Speaker 2do you personally have to take, do you aromatize a lot? Can you, do you need to take any arimidex?
38:08Speaker 3At 1 time in my twenties, I had real big problems with my BP and like, you know, heart and heart health, cardiovascular health. So I've been much more mild in the last 5
38:21Speaker 3But to be honest with you, like I've also found that more gear isn't always better. Yeah, for sure. I'm
38:37Speaker 3And so if I was to add to that, I would say that, if you, if you're on the, in a place where you're looking to add more gear,
38:44Speaker 3the 1 thing that has probably moved the needle the most in terms of my overall progress has been adding growth hormone. Absolutely.
38:58Speaker 3right now I'm doing 6 IU a day, which is it's still a moderate dose, right? Like there are some guys that are going as high as 15, 20 IU a day. They must be rich. I I know.
39:09Speaker 3I've gone as high as 8 a day, but you know, then you start dealing with some of the side effects related to that carpal tunnel with joints stiffen up. It's uncomfortable.
39:20Speaker 2and dude. And how do you space those? If you think it's safe, how do you space them? You don't do them all at once. I just do 6 IU before bed. Do you, or do you really? Yeah. Think we'll do a split dose, but yeah.
39:56Speaker 3at least not eat any food, I don't know, an hour or at least or more before that? Yeah. So if you want, I can if you would like me to, I can explain Yeah. Yeah. Give it to us. Absolutely. Okay. So there's a paradox paradoxical relationship between IGF-one production, which is what growth hormone turns into in the liver Mhmm. And insulin.
40:13Speaker 3Okay. Okay. So that's why they call it IGF-one insulin, insulin like growth factor 1. That's what it stands for. Okay. So they behave
40:28Speaker 3if you guys know Ipamorelin is a hormone that travels from your gut when you're hungry.
40:57Speaker 3Meaning my blood glucose, my blood sugar needs to be low. My insulin level needs to be low. Okay. Yep. When that growth hormone is produced, the amplitude or the size of that pulse is dictated based upon how hungry I am. Okay. That's what the ghrelin is doing. Okay.
41:11Speaker 3Then when growth hormone is produced at the pituitary, it's floating around in my blood and that's where it's doing all of the fat burning collagen repair.
41:19Speaker 3It's helping me recover for lack of a better term. Growth hormone is spectacular for your skin.
41:25Speaker 3I would make the argument that is just as good, if not better than GHK for your skin and your soft tissue. Like growth hormone is spectacular. I tell women all the time, growth hormone.
41:53Speaker 3is where you get the muscle building, the recovery, right? The repair of the muscle tissue
42:11Speaker 3Like I, like if I, if my testosterone is low and I take a growth hormone related peptide,
42:21Speaker 3or vice versa. Right? If I just take the testosterone and my IGF-one levels aren't where they should be.
42:30Speaker 3And so from that perspective, that's kind of how all that works. Yeah. And so this is exactly why the state that you take the growth hormone in matters because
42:41Speaker 3now that growth hormone has time to float around in my blood and do all the great things for recovery. And then the next time I eat, which is in the morning when I wake up, that gets converted to IGF-one.
42:51Speaker 3And now I get the muscle building benefits that come with that cortisol spike and the recovery that I'm looking for. Awesome. If I don't, if I take it while I have insulin in my blood, now what's gonna happen immediately going to be converted into IGF-one and now I'm not getting the benefits. And so this is why guys will do
43:19Speaker 3they're trying to get that localized muscle growth that comes from the IGF-one versus why guys will take their HGH at night so they can get the maximum benefit from it. Yep. Or in the morning, I'm assuming you wait to eat. Yep. Yeah, absolutely. And then
43:37Speaker 3So that's, that's where the decision tree comes from. It's not about when you take it like at night versus before bed. It's actually when you eat.
43:44Speaker 2Yes, exactly. And the reason I would say, I tell people in the mornings is great. You just came off a long fast no matter what. Yep. And plus,
43:55Speaker 3A lot of people have a hard time sleeping. Don't wanna try to fall asleep hungry. And then the other thing to consider, and this has kind of been a question that's been raised, is like, what about GLP-one agonists? Yep. Yeah. Right? Because if this is slowing the the
44:08Speaker 3digestion of the food that I'm consuming, how does that affect my fasted state when I do my GH? Absolutely. So I actually recently started suggesting for people who are on GLP-one classes of drugs to do their GH in the morning and then wait to eat because that's basically the biggest guarantee that you're gonna be fasted. For sure. Yeah. Right. I don't know if it's going to affect it because I don't have like a glucose
44:33Speaker 3But what I do know is if I sleep for 8 hours without eating, like that's when I'm, supposed to call it breakfast.
44:42Speaker 2For sure. That has been an argument and that has been something that I kind of brought up recently. It's been going on. Hey, guys, like, here's
44:53Speaker 2take them far apart. But we know these GLP-1s, you know, should be have an active 0.5 life week, 5 days. And you've, and you're taking them, especially Retatrut, right? It's pushing insulin in your body
45:15Speaker 3Not just that, but the original studies that they did on children to evaluate whether or not growth hormone turned off exogenous
45:32Speaker 3And the biggest natural pulse you get of growth hormone from your bot, from your brain
45:37Speaker 3happens when you're in deep sleep and around at about 2, 03:00 in the morning. Mhmm. So in my mind, was like, okay, well, if I wake up at 6,
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46:26Speaker 3Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist. I I basically got a freebie in the middle of the night. Yeah. Should I? Wouldn't have gotten had I done the GH before bed. Yep. Right. So
46:36Speaker 3again, the only way to really be able to tell this as far as this is like with CGM, right? Like a continuous glucose monitor, which you can get them pretty cheap. Yeah, you can.
46:56Speaker 1lower than most people do it. And it's not because I aromatize pretty easy, but like, take that out of it for a 2nd because I was always, read some stuff so long ago and it always made sense.
47:05Speaker 1We keep the test low because we want the compounds that we are taking to really shine.
47:20Speaker 1and then a lot higher on the Mastroone or whatever gear you're running because that will do its job instead of the testosterone basically
47:28Speaker 1competing and out competing the Mastrode because it's stronger. Do you agree with that? The indication that you typically follow when you're building a cycle of personalized to you when it comes to anabolics is is where you fall with the estrogen
47:43Speaker 3Some guys, they aromatize a lot of tests. Right away. Right? And so that's also gonna decide like what compounds you use. Right? But from the perspective of like low test versus allowing the anabolics to step in because there's only so many receptors on the cell,
48:06Speaker 3Mine's probably 500 and yours is probably 200 or so. That's pretty low. So for me, I could, I could do 600 mg a test a week and I'm not having any problems with E2.
48:16Speaker 3Wow. Dude, that's crazy. A lot of guys are like that. I'm a hyper responder. Like had I gone like the bodybuilding route, I would've been a perfect specimen
48:29Speaker 3so, so I wouldn't say that that's kind of the rule, but it's definitely 1 of the things you want to consider. What you want to look for is not necessarily just the E2 level,
48:40Speaker 3right? Is there sensitivity behind the nipple? Are you starting to get hardness here, irritable, trouble sleeping, things like that? Yeah. Zits. Then you wanna look at the e 2. And if it's out of range, okay, maybe we should start to look at pulling that test back. Break it down. Or that's where you would start to look at adding some type of AI.
48:57Speaker 3Sure. Yeah. And then you just kinda find your sweet spot in terms of your cycle. Some people, they're gonna be on 500 tests, 400 masked,
49:09Speaker 1Yeah. That's why the bros science will just because this worked for Ron doesn't mean it's going to work for you. It's just like macros, right? Like if
49:20Speaker 3like I do, I don't do very well with high fats. Yeah. Yeah. People are gonna like, oh, well shit. If I just do that, I'll look like you. Right? Exactly. Like you have to find your specific, what the way that your body works. And
49:35Speaker 2the same thing with anabolic. Sure. Yeah. What about you, JD? What are your favorite? I always start, I always start lower testosterone,
49:42Speaker 1you know, because I've always, you know, converted to estrogen fairly quickly, but, I've always started with Winstraw dude. Like I don't get achy. I do really well with it. Winstraw hits like the son of a bitch right away. So, you know, I'll always start the cycle with Winstraw at 1st for a month, give or take, and
50:02Speaker 1then I'll go into like a Mastron, you know, if I wanna run sometimes a Mast and Primo just because they're very similar. I like the cutters and just being hard. I was gonna say you like being shredded hard. I do. Yeah. Like, I'm not a big bulker. I don't even think I've ever been around a big bulk bulking cycle. It's just not my thing. But
50:30Speaker 2I do too. Like, if you're talking about an oral paper, they say Anabar's more than Oh my gosh. People love Anabar though. Like, Winstraw. But so is Winstraw. Anabar's for girls, bro. Yeah. I did. Hey, bro. But they get Probably the most popular, dude. They did. Oh, it is the most popular because it's the weakest and people think that it's the safest. They're like Starter off. They're scared to do it. Well, it's also an oral. Right? So you have the threshold for starting as much lower. It's kind of like peptides, right?
50:57Speaker 1Peptides are more, I guess, lower thresholds for entry. Absolutely. It's not steroids. I bet in
51:04Speaker 35 years, there's going be more people than ever doing gear because peptides are like, well shit. We've already seen some people move over to their like And that's actually a good point because I think guys like us, while being open about it and being willing to have these conversations in the public forum for people to observe, it
51:28Speaker 3Have to encourage people to do it the right way. Get your lab work done, be monitoring your BP, like all this stuff.
51:43Speaker 1Right? Right. It's the same thing with Anything abused is a problem. Like anything like done with like
51:50Speaker 3it's like, you know, it's not as big as those people make it, but And I mean, I've got like kids that are 18, 19 years old on Instagram messaging me about the, about doing the steroid cycle. And I'm like, bro, like, you
52:16Speaker 3what I take and what I don't take, But I always try to make sure that at the end of that, I'm like, hey, like
52:23Speaker 2But there's this. I mean, There's a disclaimer folks like, yes, I have taken gear and I
52:34Speaker 2personally okay with that. Yes. It's a personal choice. And I'm personally okay and take some damn responsibility for all the side effects and manage those and, and yeah.
52:47Speaker 240 years, That's my fault. Your fault. And I will live with the I will live those consequences. I will not blame it on anybody.
52:53Speaker 2There's that. And these and like, anabolics do come with, like, you better be ready to manage side effects. There is
53:02Speaker 1but there's any action, there's a there's an equal reaction Mhmm. But or greater. You said it that you like, be a grown up. Like, if you don't know the difference between different esters, don't take it yet. Like, read about it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, had a guy ask me and I'm like, dude, you're not ready for this, dude. Like, don't if you don't know the difference between these 2, don't do it. Or you can't Google something? Literally, bro. Like, you have You're asking me like
53:37Speaker 2so if I'm doing like a cycle, Sustanon is my favorite. And I just because baby, like, I'm a, you know, ex drug addict and I like things to, like, work now. So I like the fact that it's got the prop in it even though I still feel feel a little, like, right?
53:54Speaker 2Yeah, I'm probably better off going every day. Absolutely, but whatever. Doing it 3 days a week. Anyway, Sussan and I like the I like the the prop right in the final prop that hits now a little bit later in a few days. And then it also has some tail end
54:11Speaker 2in the back end. Anyway, so there and then dude, I don't know, Mastron is my favorite.
54:44Speaker 2immediately if I do a primo? So I just don't do it anymore. Wind stalls probably might have my favorite. Like I come from like a sports background.
54:51Speaker 2Never when I was actually like playing competitive sports was I even 1st time I ever tested this stuff, was 29 years old. So, and let that be a disclaimer to your kids too. Right. I grew into a full grown ass adult and beyond before I touched anything. Yeah.
55:16Speaker 2Primo yeah, dude, I don't know. It starts really no Oh, windstraws, I was say, this is fun playing basketball, windstraw, until you tear a muscle. Really easy.
55:36Speaker 2You can do But Cardiering is another 1 that I really like. I know it's not an anabolic steroid, but like I really noticed that stuff works. It makes
55:44Speaker 3athletic competition kind of fun. I used to do card ring for my jujitsu competitions. There you go. That's a huge
55:51Speaker 2difference. Yeah. And a lot of people come back to that trend, right, because trend just kills your cardiovascular ability.
56:08Speaker 2Is Reducing free testosterone. The end of the cycle. But but I have never ran anything more than 6,
56:24Speaker 3And I think it's really going to do that much more. Just diminishing the turns of the more and more testosterone. 1 I think for me, it comes to a point where it's like, all right, bro, like, what are we really doing this for?
56:36Speaker 3You know, I'm a social media influencer. Like I'm never going to step on a bodybuilding. Why
57:01Speaker 3think it's just the fact that everybody was underwhelmed by the outcomes in the enhanced games is just proof that everybody was already fucking enhanced in- Well, that's good. That's for sure.
57:10Speaker 1I don't even I I don't think and and if you're a professional athlete, I don't who gives a shit? Yeah. Like, they're gonna get the best if they're gonna get blood work. Like, who cares? I don't think I've never thought it was a big deal. I think Barry Bonds is a is a is a pioneer. Yeah.
57:32Speaker 2that pharmacy in Florida, in South Florida, where they started, like they gave Menemura Ramirez and
57:42Speaker 2Manny is the 1st 1 to get hopped with it. And basically they'd go to the doctor and the doctor would say, here's a test prop or even test just suspension.
57:50Speaker 2They said, do not do this on a game day because it's the only days that they test. Right? But when you're that fucking good at baseball normally, right, you have a little bit of test. So he would do like in a tiny bit, like, I don't know, 0.5 a cc on non game days every day. So it would, and it would be out of him on actual game days, but it would still be
58:09Speaker 2working. He said the 1st, like the 1st at bat I had that baseball looked like a basketball coming down the pike. Like,
58:36Speaker 2brought down everything. Dude. Then everybody else was making those same damn mistakes. But it's really interesting about how it was a nobody guy that You have 1 job. Yeah.
58:56Speaker 2I don't know, maybe a little bit of but, like, you can't you can't do that, like, that much of an endurance sport
59:07Speaker 2They just, they fizzled out through injuries. Right? Your tendons and ligaments can't handle it. Baseball's a perfect sport to do because it's just not a lot of running. Yeah. But good luck with the basketball player. Now there is some other in it, but there is some performance enhancer. You absolutely take. My, my thing is, is I always look at the kids that go from like high school to college.
59:27Speaker 3jacked, What happened? What did they give you? Right? Like there's gotta be something. I'm obviously I've never played D1 football. Maybe you can speak to that. They bro, some of these people,
59:39Speaker 2I mean that you eat and the coaches stopped by every dinner. Hey, eat more, eat more. Right? I can't tell you how many times after dinner I threw up because I was just forced myself to eat so damn much and just, you're taught to stretch your stomach out so then we can put
59:56Speaker 2you know? And they said, all right, kid, like you used to be a wide receiver in the corner. You're
1:00:08Speaker 2So gain some weight, but I probably gained, you know, 45 pounds in the 1st That's a lot. You're and and not taking
1:00:15Speaker 2I mean, you're you're also training 3 a day. You're also training a year. Have your testosterone level. You're a young kid who's just bulking. I mean, of these guys, the Simoans on our team, man, they would giants.
1:00:26Speaker 3Well, I'm glad that you said that though, because that's exact perfect reason why these young kids don't need to be on gear. Yeah. Yeah. Tiria team, baby. You just you just need eat, bro. What's what's fiance? What are you big? Eat big. Yeah, dude. And And that's, and that kind of goes into, I think is the other piece that I think people significantly
1:00:46Speaker 3is go watch every documentary of every big bodybuilder where they talk about their routine and preparation for the Olympia.
1:01:02Speaker 3most people, especially the average day to day guy, even coming close. Yeah. Now we're nowhere near.
1:01:09Speaker 2I mean Protein and like diet, know, it's funny. We've talked about this before the best diet advice, like what should I eat? Like just eat a lot of protein. All of it.
1:01:19Speaker 2But like even you look at ripped up, like eat protein. Don't even, we're just want to oversimplify
1:01:23Speaker 2it, don't worry about your fat, right? Don't eat a butt. Don't eat the whole ton of carbs, but just get your protein. You'll get enough fat
1:01:30Speaker 3and you'll build enough muscle and that will help burn fat and build muscle and blah, blah, Ladies, especially women. They don't need enough protein. Yeah. And that kind of goes in, you asked about the men earlier in terms of like big things I see for men on labs and like their mistakes, not to bring it all the way back to, you know, 20 minutes ago, but like for women,
1:01:57Speaker 1Yeah. Well, and a lot of them think that like getting in shape is the treadmill, it's resistance training and protein. You wanna be, you wanna be toned, right? The toned look you're looking for is increasing your muscle
1:02:15Speaker 3and then you'll become more lean and you're going to get that toned look you're looking for. Becoming more skinny on a treadmill
1:02:28Speaker 3are you taking right now? So for me right now, I'm doing a very low dose of Retta. Like what's low dose? Milligram a week. Okay, cool. I
1:02:48Speaker 31 mg a week is the highest I can go where it's manageable and I'm not completely miserable all the time. Sure.
1:03:01Speaker 3and I talked about this in the past about like why you don't get response. Some people don't respond to like MOTS-1C and NAD plus, but like I've tried and fooled around with like the mitochondrial type stuff. And honestly, I don't really,
1:03:16Speaker 3So for me, it's just real basic. I just stick to the Reta and the GH. Honestly, it's both are great. Nice. 2 of my faves. What are you taking right now, JD?
1:03:32Speaker 1and that's great. It gives me energy. I take that and I've been loving that. And HGH is for sure. 2, use is what I take, man, and it's just perfect for me. Love it.
1:03:41Speaker 1What am I taking? I like AOD. A lot of people don't like it. It is very wide range of some people just think it sucks. I think it's great. Doesn't accuse your IGF-one. It just has a job to burn fat. So I'm a cutter guy, so I love AOD.
1:04:06Speaker 2I hate calling her my girlfriend. I've been with her so long and like, I'm like on the verge of
1:04:12Speaker 2old to be calling this girl, my girlfriend, but I'm about a couple of weeks away from 0.5
1:04:16Speaker 3of the question. You don't have to get the government involved in marriage. You were right. I don't have to. True. You're right. True. That is true.
1:05:02Speaker 2And I'm probably going to start doing that twice a week and really not for like, I don't know, just for brain
1:05:08Speaker 2function. If I don't eat as much, plus I guess I'm trying to like cut down, lean out a little bit before I go on vacation.
1:05:18Speaker 3just a very small lower dose of Retta just because of the mental aspect of the absolute.
1:05:31Speaker 3I would have eaten that whole plate. But since I am, you know, I have the little, the little bit of extra self control. Whether
1:05:38Speaker 1that's right or wrong. And if they think that they don't, works for me. And that's opinion, right? Like, is that true? Yeah. Maybe it is because it is to you.
1:05:57Speaker 3I don't believe this works very well. Yeah. Lot of people, but 1 you know, you got JD sitting here saying, I love it. Well, guess what? Like, if he feels like it's working for him, Like,
1:06:06Speaker 3don't have to take Yeah. Like, I don't, it's not my job to be like, that doesn't work.
1:06:15Speaker 1Don't chip. Yeah, it is. I know you wanna have fun, just look through our comments, man. If you're just more like, why are you I do, I'm not joking, but I had a oh, we had Paul Backyard sitting here and I asked him a question about fasting. That's it. Just I just wanna know his opinion on fasting and cancer.
1:06:34Speaker 1fasting not like curing cancer because they were like, this guy was like going off in the comments and then he goes into my DMs, you fucking dis I'm like, brother.
1:06:46Speaker 1I don't have any words except me. Woah. You're having a moment. Yeah. I'm gonna give you a 2nd to just Have you thought about scrolling past this post?
1:06:59Speaker 1we enjoyed it again. You and I have been talking for hours, man, and, we appreciate your time. You know what, a little cool story about Josh, we started rapping and
1:07:07Speaker 1I said, Hey, let's just get you in here. We decided like the date, he's like, I'm booking my flight. And it was just boom, boom, boom, boom. I'm like, gonna get along great, bro. Just get shit done, bro. I've
1:07:20Speaker 3you're a lot bigger, you're a lot buffered in real life. Thank you. I appreciate that. Because they're all looking, they're like, this guy's not that big. I promise I'm gonna like, Hey,
1:07:31Speaker 1look up dude. Yeah. Yeah. He's loaded up. What a good time, man. So we, we'll have you back on. It's been a great time. I could, we could sit here and talk forever, man. And
1:07:43Speaker 1anything, again, where can people find you? Yeah. Josh dot Holyfield on Instagram and Josh Holyfield on YouTube. Place. Cool, man. I hope that everybody
1:07:56Speaker 1even though we're all doing the same thing that like, we're just all here to talk and talk about cool shit and have good conversations. And even about the gear, that different stuff, it's just cool conversations, man. That's what this podcast is about growing and evolving and learning from each other. So other than that, you want to have a thing before we split, get join us kids. He's
1:08:17Speaker 1join both. You'll learn a lot from all of us. We put a shitload of information on there and we keep doing that.
1:08:28Speaker 3Anything else you want to take us out? So I do have 1 thing I want to share with you guys because I don't, I'm surprised he didn't say anything. So JD actually reached out to me what, like 4 months ago.
1:08:38Speaker 3And I was like, I'll get back to you. Yeah. I figured you did some research and I kind of just like, let it sit.
1:08:54Speaker 3You know, and if I'm gonna take the time and put my face out there, you know, this isn't something I typically do. I kind of just keep to myself. I wanna make sure that it's in good company. So I wanna say, I, I did, I took the time to observe what you guys were doing,
1:09:07Speaker 3kind of, had an alignment and values, and that was really what led me to make the decision. That's awesome. I wanted to come out here. So kudos to you guys, for being,
1:09:19Speaker 1you know, like what we see out there in the world more, more so than not. We appreciate you saying that, man. Like we said, lighting fires in the hearts of men, man. Right? Yes, sir. Yeah. All right. I hope everybody enjoyed it and we'll catch you on the next round. See you later. Peace.