Ep 112 · 1:08:13
Full transcript
Machine transcribed. Not yet read against the audio.
Research use only
Any compounds discussed may be intended for research purposes only. Nothing here is a protocol to follow — amounts, timing and cycle lengths are reported as the named speaker described them.
We are not doctors. Use at your own risk.
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1:05Speaker 2Welcome back to the Peptide of the Week podcast. I'm your host JD Dental. Across the way to my left a little bit is
1:12Speaker 3my cohost, my brother, mister William T. Haas. What's up, dude? What's up, man? It's good to be here. Yeah. Good to be here. We got a guest here. We were up early. Lifting.
1:27Speaker 3which I'm usually not for the record, everybody. So it's giving y'all shit. He texted me. He said he said 06:30. I was like, we'll do 7. Yeah. Yeah. That sounded better, but I still didn't get mouth on. What you wanted to do after?
1:39Speaker 2Didn't he he probably sleeping. But, without further ado, we got somebody. Most people that watch this podcast, I'm sure, know who Josh Holyfield is. We know who he is. We see him all over the internet.
1:51Speaker 2And, you know, we all live in the same realm. You know, I say it all the time. We don't compete with anybody. We want to sit down with people and learn from each other, have rad conversations.
2:00Speaker 2I've already done 1 podcast with with them. We lifted this morning. Josh and I have been talking up a storm. It's been great. I've already learned a lot, but I'm ready to sit down for 1 more podcast with you, my brother. Welcome to the Peptide of the Week Podcast. Thank you for the invite, man. Appreciate being here. Yeah. So for the people that don't know you, unless they've been probably living under a rock, tell us a little bit about who you are.
2:23Speaker 4I'm a washed up fitness coach who had to figure out a way to make his business grow. And so I decided to teach people how to do peptides.
2:41Speaker 4So I've gotten, gotten some great results, build a phenomenal audience and community around helping men specifically.
2:48Speaker 4When the peptide things, you know, the peptides really started to come out, people had questions. Do I use this? What is this?
2:55Speaker 4And what I observed was that these companies, especially, you know, the TRT clinics that kind of got onto the 1st wave. Yeah. They were selling this stuff and didn't even know what it did. Yeah. They were selling it for a lot. And they're selling it for a lot. Right?
3:09Speaker 4And the company that I was partnered with at the time, I kind of learned, number 1, they're prescribing stuff that these people don't really need. And
3:23Speaker 4Yes. Literally. I'm calling the police. Like, you've been making what off of these? $4,500
3:45Speaker 4middle of last year, '25. Okay. It wasn't that long ago. Okay. And so what I started doing was long form
4:10Speaker 4you know, if I watch this video, it's gonna give me all the information I need to make the most informed decision for myself on whether this is a good fit.
4:27Speaker 3in a voice that people can understand or should be able to. And that was kind of exactly honestly,
4:33Speaker 4what I was going for. Yeah. I was, okay, like, this is nerd stuff. Mhmm. I have to use a dictionary to figure out what this means and translate it for these people. Right. And
4:50Speaker 4And you, you create this, this environment where people are getting this information just pushed at them from every angle.
4:57Speaker 4They don't know who to believe, what to believe, how things work, what's right, who's right and wrong. Especially now.
5:03Speaker 4It's just getting worse. Oh man. It's like crazy now. So my goal was, Hey, like this is what this does.
5:09Speaker 4Let me give you the ability to make an informed decision in a distilled way that you can easily understand. Sure.
5:23Speaker 4How did that happen then? I love helping people. Right? Like my thing is I went through a period of my life where I kind of lost myself.
5:35Speaker 4the, you know, the progression of a man over time, as he settles, he's just gets fat. He kind of
5:41Speaker 4talks about his glory days. And then he wakes up 1 day in his mid thirties or forties. And he's like, what the hell happened? What do I do? Right? So that was me.
5:49Speaker 4Except it happened to me when I was in my late twenties instead. So I got a, you know, ahead of a lot, a lot of guys went through divorce and
5:57Speaker 4a lot of the lessons that I was learning going through that and, you know, self discovery and reflection I shared with the internet. And
6:10Speaker 4And we had built a community around like dudes empowering other dudes and helping each other overcome these things and holding each other accountable and becoming
6:27Speaker 4I would just sell workout programs to help dudes for like $20 a pop. Like it wasn't anything crazy and
6:39Speaker 4spirit of that community was I had a guy come in and say, Hey, you know, you can charge much higher prices for coaching, right? High ticket.
6:46Speaker 4And I'm like, oh really? He's like, you can charge thousands of dollars for this thing and people will pay you.
6:52Speaker 4And so I drank that Kool Aid and the next thing you know, I turned in, turned from a guy who just genuinely wanted to help people into this asshole was trying to make money on the internet.
7:02Speaker 2I call it the invisible line. It was a lot of places they crossover and you don't see it. And, and I did very well for many years. Probably
7:19Speaker 4ego and arrogance kind of led my business to a place where I was about this close to going back to work.
7:26Speaker 4And that was at the same time as this kind of, I call it the peptide gold rush. Yeah. Right. Pretty much. Where I was like, I gotta change what I'm doing.
7:35Speaker 4So, know what, enough of telling people how they should live and who they should be and what they should do with their lives.
7:42Speaker 2I'm just going to start informing people. Yeah. Was there a catalyst to that? Is there like endpoint
7:53Speaker 4was in a position in my life at the time where I was working 7 days a week behind a computer,
8:04Speaker 4at least 14 hours a day. I would wake up, sit down at my desk and I wouldn't get up. We too. I've been there and
8:29Speaker 4I'm very selective about the clients that I take and we've built a model where I have a team of qualified guys that do a lot of the day to day on it.
8:37Speaker 4I'm really glad that I was able to get out to it because it gives me the ability to create more of an exponential reach in the world. Sure. Absolutely. Because we all know sitting here that it's not about the peptides. I mean, some people like everybody wants it now. They want to inject something and be skinny and ripped. And,
8:59Speaker 2every man sitting here knows that it's not like that. Got to work on the base. We will and I talking about the base all the time, which is
9:10Speaker 2exercise. You got to have these things, man. You got to build this base. Like everybody wants to build the 3rd floor
9:15Speaker 2without building the base. You know what I mean? And like maybe the red will help them a little bit, but they come off it. You're not working on the base. You know what I mean? It's
9:24Speaker 2the objective isn't to take these things in perpetuity. It's the change of life. You know what I mean? So like with you with that background, me and that background will have the same background. We know that that's the most important part, which is hormones,
9:48Speaker 3We see the best results from people who write in the Q and A's are like, all right, I failed. I tried and failed and did this and now I've learned and then I know all this research. I know all these things about these things. Right? It's like that just is what it is. It is just you have to sit back, do enough research, spend enough effort
10:13Speaker 4shift that's happening in the health industry writ large and as far as Western medicine is concerned is
10:19Speaker 4people are starting to take responsibility for their own health. Sure. Which is great. And I think that's the greatest thing. That's weird to say anything has happened in terms of the positive
10:28Speaker 4aspect of peptides becoming so mainstream is people are now realizing like, I have to take ownership of this. It's my responsibility to be healthy and make those decisions.
10:40Speaker 4Absolutely. And I'm seeing it more and more like comments on the YouTube channel where they're like, thank you so much for this video. You confirmed my research.
10:49Speaker 4Cool. Or, Hey, I was doing this research over here and I saw this. What are your thoughts? And
10:58Speaker 4it's not about your ego, like, is this influencer right? Or is that guy right? It's like, Hey, what are your thoughts on this study that just came out? How does this change the landscape in terms of the way that we look at these things to help us optimize? Well, I've seen you do what we've done. I've seen you like do videos where like, said it was this when I was actually, I've realized that it's because
11:20Speaker 2if you watch our videos in the beginning, it's there was different stuff that we said about Tesamorelin. I mean, like, are not gods. We don't even pretend to act like we know everything. We are learning and these are newer compounds to most people.
11:38Speaker 2seeing countless people try these things and have firsthand knowledge? I know it reads like that, but I've actually seen it to be a little bit different over here. You know what I mean?
11:47Speaker 2That's so priceless, you know? And we were talking about it before we started recording, which is
11:59Speaker 2you were talking about a doctor if they just did this, this and this, and I'd be like, find me that doctor, I'd go to see him. But,
12:08Speaker 2here's the problem here, take this medicine and doctors have fallen short, you know, and either
12:14Speaker 2the ones that are realizing peptides are here to stay and they're starting to learn or the train's coming, it's going to pass them up because I don't think, okay, you're going to completely push Western medicine aside completely, but I think it's a big part of it because these things are amino acids, man.
12:31Speaker 2Want to take a statin or you want to take an amino acid, you know what I mean? Why do you think that some of the doctors have asked this before, some other guests, why do you think some doctors
12:41Speaker 2have seen some of the things that they've seen? They've realized that probably this medication isn't the best to prescribe to people, whether it be a statin. I don't know. Why do you think they keep prescribing it?
12:56Speaker 4Know- Are they so programmed? I can't speak to the intention of people, but I I'm gonna say what I'm gonna say is that
13:05Speaker 4it's very, it's more, very, very rare that you'll find somebody that operates in their life with pure malicious intent.
13:14Speaker 4You know, think most people generally speaking have a tendency to try to do what they believe is right. Sure.
13:36Speaker 4doesn't put enough accountability back on the doctors to be examples of what they're promoting.
13:52Speaker 4You know, the question that you should be asking if you approach your doctor is, I want to look like this guy? I say it all the time, I was doing fitness. Does your doctor, how does he look? Is he ripped? Why are gonna listen to him then? Exactly. So if you go to your doctor and you don't and not just that, but just
14:09Speaker 4because somebody has letters next to their name doesn't necessarily mean they're qualified to do something. It's true.
14:14Speaker 4Right? You know, that just means that you're able to pass a test and go to school. And
14:20Speaker 4I think now in today's world, we're in an era of truth where information is freely available and that's not the limiting factor. Right.
14:29Speaker 4So you're right. I think to answer your question, like I said, I don't think the doctors are
14:39Speaker 4so many people are just so old and set in their ways that They believe everything they say. Not just that, but you also take that and you pair it on top of the monetary incentives that go on top of doctors through pharmaceutical companies and
14:52Speaker 4insurance companies placing pressure upon them. They have their, their, there are specific guidelines that prevent them from describing certain things.
15:10Speaker 4are driven by profit rather than helping people. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And so if I was to kind of summarize all that, I think the
15:22Speaker 4it's the fact that we have the insurance the health insurance industry and the medical industry are married
15:36Speaker 3some color to that point, we were sitting here with Trevor Cruder who owns several pharmacies and
15:59Speaker 3success rates and then you got a drug that's showing 94 percent, right? This 95 percent is a 100 times more expensive
16:10Speaker 3Yes. 5 percent of that. The actual laws say that the only the 1 that has showing the absolute best potential
16:17Speaker 3gets moved on in the trial. The other 1 just gets dropped, scrapped. We don't wanna hear about it. There's no taking,
16:24Speaker 0like, shit, this is I mean, come on now. This is pretty damn this is almost the same. But man, will it save everybody some money? This is goodbye. And only this 1 gets to proceed.
16:39Speaker 4the powers that be have created and it's all financial. Well, to be fair too, you also have a situation where the
17:24Speaker 4Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Like, there it's it's obscene. The amount of influence on the government is
17:42Speaker 49 times out of 10, they're going to the boards of these big companies like Pfizer. Absolutely.
17:47Speaker 4And so again, there there's this connection between the healthcare industry in the healthcare industry, it's healthcare,
18:03Speaker 4in my opinion, I think that, the government has a fucking big problem to deal with when it comes to peptides and they don't know what to do. Right.
18:12Speaker 4And that's what this thing is- Change is coming whether you like it or not. Exactly. Like how do we integrate this? Because it's not going away. And their knee jerk reaction is, okay, we need to shut this down, tighten up customs, put pressure on China on exports. Like we saw that over the last 6 months. Sure. And
18:33Speaker 4you either they're they have now come to the realization, I believe, that this train is coming and they're not stopping it.
18:41Speaker 4The next question we're gonna ask is how do we control it? Absolutely. And it's just like pot.
18:47Speaker 4We saw the legal we're seeing the legalization of pot and more more states. They're getting their tax money on it. I'm my assessment is that it's maybe different than a lot of people is there is going to be much more scrutiny on these research based companies that are selling for research use only.
19:02Speaker 4They're going be held to a much higher standard when it comes to that in terms of purity as well as, you know, of custody of sourcing, I think is gonna be a big thing. Which is not a bad thing. That's a good don't disagree.
19:13Speaker 2I think that's a phenomenal- Because like everybody needs to be checked upon. You know? There's people that are not doing things right. They're just hoping to God they're getting shit from China and it
19:41Speaker 4Right? Where doctors are going to be put into a position where they can more openly have conversations with their patients about these things. Well, that'd great. That'd be awesome. Right? Because there is a certain,
19:57Speaker 4a doctor has when he has a patient come in and say, Hey, I'm taking this list of research chemicals for
20:04Speaker 4If he condones it and then this guy flops over and dies, now this guy's got a malpractice suit So on his
20:21Speaker 4you know how people are. So I'll song and dance right now. Everybody's like zigging or zigging and zagging. Especially doctors. So would Luther prescribing restrictions look like indemnity
20:34Speaker 4because you're right. Nobody wants mean, there is that huge factor. Well, here's an example, right? So I own a telemedicine company and, you know, there are certain
20:51Speaker 4that may not that that that that can't that aren't typically prescribed for, like, a certain treatment.
21:06Speaker 0And this space starts with Ultra Fit. Unlike traditional running shoes, Ultra Fit gives toes more room to move naturally, so every step is strong, balanced,
21:28Speaker 1This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doomscrolling?
21:32Speaker 1Smart move. Another smart move? Getting help from 1 of State Farm's 19,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling, just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state.
21:56Speaker 4the patient to sign a document that basically says, I understand that this is a, you know, basically a a trial. We're doing research here. This treatment is not,
22:12Speaker 4Like, you're almost assigning yourself up for 1 of those, you know, you're watching the movies. There's this special Yeah. Treatment for cancer that may save my life. Should I do it? Right? Like, so you have to sign that document
22:29Speaker 4And so there are certain things that we can do to kind of give ourselves more freedom,
22:37Speaker 4at what point is the health of a, is the care of a patient, their responsibility, the patient's responsibility instead of the doctors. And
22:44Speaker 4I think that's the big question when it comes to these things where people have to be saying, have to be willing to say, yeah, I chose to take that. The doctor didn't tell me to take it. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah. Good job. Good. So you do, you do a lot of consultations with people. I do like fitness consultations. So I guess we talked about this beforehand, but,
23:02Speaker 3what are some, well, I mean, this looking at blood work, what are some of the most common, I don't know, issues that you are seeing with men and women?
23:24Speaker 4Bottom line. Hormone optimization is part of that, but I don't I wouldn't consider it a foundation. I think it's part of the sleep and the nutrition. Right?
23:33Speaker 4Most of the time you solve the problems related to sleep and nutrition mostly, and the hormones kind of fall in place. Sure. Right? Yeah. You posted something recently about that. Yeah. I was actually, I watched it and go, oh, that's actually interested. I'll talk to you about that. And so,
23:57Speaker 4is not a confirmation test to know whether or not this guy actually has kidney failure.
24:02Speaker 4And they're not trained on the pathology and how to understand what these labs are saying.
24:14Speaker 4If you're L- you have elevated LDL and you're on the keto or carnivore diet, that's expected. Yeah.
24:21Speaker 4Yeah. If you have elevated LDL and you're on Reta, that's expected. Why? Because your liver is and,
24:42Speaker 4And most of the time it's, it's a problem that's related to just diet and sleep. Sure.
25:05Speaker 4Because APOB is actually showing you the quality of the LDL. Yeah. Because it's not the cholesterol, it's inflammation. That's what you're And the other, the other biomarker you want to look at, which most doctors don't test for is your CRP,
25:22Speaker 4And there are actually studies in place that show that elevated LDL is not as good of a predictor as elevated
25:30Speaker 4Sure. Because it doesn't tell the whole picture. But exactly. And it's not, but it's more expensive to test for. Yeah.
25:40Speaker 4And that's it. And then they're throwing this guy on a statin. Yeah. And then they're creating all these other problems with basically a ATP production, their ability to process and methylate b vitamins. Right. And now they're creating like these downstream effects that are causing
25:55Speaker 4even worse symptoms for these guys. Do you think doctors know that? I mean, do know? I think that the standard practice is because that's what they've been taught. So, like LDL, he needs to go on a standard because we have this guideline of it can't exceed a 100 or a 120 or whatever. Crazy. Right?
26:32Speaker 390%. When I see your average, when you're looking at all the, what do you think that, what is the average, I don't know, total testosterone and free testosterone you're seeing Between 3 and 500.
26:43Speaker 4Not Yeah. Happy. Does the prescribing guidelines for testosterone replacement therapy are no greater than 400? Yeah. Most doctors are looking for around 3 50.
27:03Speaker 4it's so common. So common. But then the very next question I'll ask a guy is, you have low testosterone. What's your sleep habit? Sleep wise. And then that you're gonna say there. Yeah. Smart man.
27:14Speaker 2How does a doctor not like that should be the 1st thing a doctor asks, how are you sleeping? Somebody pass, what do you do for a living? Is it stressful? Exactly. You know what I mean? And then the next question after that is okay, well how much protein are you consuming every day from lean sources of animal protein. Most
27:56Speaker 4Right? Because their aromatase activity increases because they're overweight, so all the testosterone that they're producing. So if you just lose the weight, sleep,
28:08Speaker 0And this is coming from a guy who sells TRT. Yeah. So you would say, let's play that out for a 2nd. You have a gentleman that's 43.
28:19Speaker 2he sleeps like shit. So your, your approach with that guy would be, let's fix his sleep 1st. Absolutely.
28:26Speaker 3Yes. I would agree. So you had a question like this, but the person was 60 pounds overweight.
28:42Speaker 4That's, that's tough. It's fatal funnel. So I don't know. Right? So this is kind of the problem that you have is all these, they compound onto each other. Sure. So like I sleep like shit because I'm stressed out at work. I'm holding fat. I've got the kids. Right. Next thing you know, I'm, my testosterone is lowering. I'm getting fatter now that's- I'm tired. I do less and it's like, I'm fat because I eat and I eat because I'm fat. And the interesting thing about this is you guys may not know this. This is gonna kind of really send this into the outfield
29:22Speaker 4you have these doctors that are prescribing these statins to fat guys who have high BPH and LDL who are active and they're eating poorly.
29:29Speaker 4Their testosterone's already low because they're aromatizing all day. And what then we're gonna do is we're gonna go ahead and take away the raw material for 1 thing that they could use to break themselves out of that situation. And then here comes a world of problems. Right. And so these problems all compound on each other. And you're absolutely right. Like 1 of the band aid solutions that we can apply is, okay, well, let's just give this guy testosterone. Sure. But
29:53Speaker 4if we just throw that band aid on top of it and we don't use that as a catalyst or a tool to push this guy towards the habits that he needs to apply to fix it. Sure. Let's talk about creating like a big leap.
30:08Speaker 2would always say, you need to like look into these GLP-1s. And I was doing fitness training at the time. I'm like, dude, I'm fit. I'm good. I don't need You're not disciplined. And I preach discipline. Yeah. And I really felt like that. And then like we did, we started a company and I had to like start to study this stuff and I'm like, this sounds freaking amazing, you know?
30:27Speaker 2But if you have somebody that doesn't have discipline, right? They're overweight and let's just, it isn't what it is. And
30:33Speaker 2this is gonna be the stake of the Sareto Juice is gonna be the catalyst to get that snowball spinning down stills in that. Now when they go to the gym, they see themselves losing weight and you know how it is, I want more of this. And then they start eating right and then the testosterone
30:49Speaker 2we gave him some testosterone, it doesn't have to be a perpetuity, like it could be for a bit, you can come off of it, you know that. And like, what if we did that at 1st? Because within a few weeks, he's feeling really good. You know, he's, you know, a few weeks, he's good and losing the weight's a lot easier because we know that. So that's how I would kind of go about it. So that kind of contradicts what you were doing. That's exactly how I that's the conversation I have with the guys who are overweight. Okay.
31:21Speaker 4guy who works for me on the TRD clinic side comes over. He's like, hey, can you look at look at these labs? He sends it over.
31:35Speaker 4And he's like, well, he wants the test. What do we do? I said, I want you to explain to him what's happening, basically what I just explained to you and say, we will prescribe the testosterone.
32:06Speaker 4other things. Yeah. Right. And that's what most of these telemedicine clinics are doing. And what's happening is they're just creating a bigger problem for this guy. Sure. Because what happens when you give a fat guy who's eating poorly more testosterone than he's converting into estrogen?
32:24Speaker 4Right? We called that bitch tit. So you're not fixing the problem for him unless you give him the tools that he needs to succeed. And I think that's probably the most important. It's that whole, like you can lead a horse to water. You know what I mean? Hope to God.
32:38Speaker 2Some people are just going to never drink. It is what it is, but hopefully if we can just give them the damn water, they're at least tempted enough because once they
32:50Speaker 4you know, and that's where the inspiration stuff comes in. That's the coaching. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, at the same time, man, I'm also a huge fan of Darwin,
33:03Speaker 4The weak kick themselves out. I will show up with compassion. I'll educate you. I'll teach you. I will show up with love and give you all the grace that you need so that you can feel because I know what it feels like to be,
33:17Speaker 4and I hate to bring in, you know, the depressing side into this to be ready to end it all.
33:22Speaker 4Overweight, depressed. Why am I here? This sucks. And I know how hard it is to pull yourself out of the depths of that and
33:39Speaker 0So I will walk you through that and I'll hold your hand and we'll go through that fire together.
33:44Speaker 0But if you're not ready to help yourself, you deserve it. I wanna I wanna tap on that for a 2nd. So if that's you out there, you're listening.
33:56Speaker 2and you don't want to go to the gym because you're intimidated by the gym, here's what you don't get. The people that go to the gym are going to support you. They are gonna lift you up, dude. They're at the gym. They're not gonna be like, you're going to the gym. Maybe a couple of dickheads, but you know what I mean? They're going to the gym too. They're gonna be like, yeah, bro, you're losing weight. So if that's a fear, which I know it is,
34:14Speaker 2go to the gym and you're gonna find your people. They're gonna I'm telling you guys, you're gonna find your people. They're not gonna dog on you. They're gonna lift you up. Hey man, why don't you do it this way? This might work better. I'm telling you. And most of the people there were where you are. Yeah. Hell yeah.
34:34Speaker 4to my mic microphone. Very true. I'm I'm stoked for somebody who comes into the gym, isn't it? I'm like, hell yes. Good for you. Hell yeah. I'm saying what's up? I absolutely. We're all there because we want the same thing, dude. Yeah. And if I see somebody in the gym showing up every day overweight and they're struggling, dude, I personally walk up and I say, hey, you know what, I see you here. Hell yeah. I just wanna let you know you're doing awesome and you should keep going. I mean Yeah. What I mean. You're going to find the, you're going to find the people that you need and that motivation.
35:02Speaker 4And I promise you, just like we were talking on the last podcast, the people who are your biggest supporters on your journey,
35:08Speaker 4most of the time, aren't gonna be the people, you know, it's a virtue that they're going to be strangers. Right. And not just that, but also on the other side of the coin,
35:20Speaker 2Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Because we did. And like, it's just like same thing with like alcoholics or whatever. Like if you're overweight and then you bust your ass, even if you take some Retina and get on testosterone,
35:31Speaker 2everybody's doing it, It's going to help you. Who cares? Like, it's not a bad thing and you get in great shape.
35:41Speaker 2Turn around and show other people how to do it. That's the purpose. That is literally empowerment. So
35:52Speaker 2and we think that's the objective, but it's not. It's to show others, plural, to fix yourselves.
35:59Speaker 2You know what I mean? And like, we're all sitting here. We love it. We could sit about here and talk about peptides. We talk about nutrition. We can talk about gear for hours. You know what I mean? Very easy.
36:11Speaker 2like, we've all been through some shit and like, we want to like pass on this stuff and we've studied it. We've learned this stuff because we've studied it. Like, if you're listening to this,
36:22Speaker 2study it. Like just because dude on the internet or wherever you're getting your stuff from says this,
36:28Speaker 33 make sure you check it, study it, read it, try it, like figure it And worked out with it and ate right with it and not ate right within. We understand what happens when you do
36:40Speaker 3Speaking of, unless you wanna add anything, I would I'm curious to hear well, I'm actually curious. What's your let's all round table it. Like, what's your favorite couple
36:56Speaker 4Testosterone siponate is fine. You don't have to go crazy with any, like, old school, like Sussanon.
37:08Speaker 4Okay, cool. Okay. So the best way to do those long Ester drugs, especially when you're talking about
37:16Speaker 4do the long Ester drugs daily. Yeah. You never wanna do the short Ester ones. Those are ones that are gonna create the most
37:24Speaker 4and kind of we'll say conversion. Sure. And your balance, right? The typically for bodybuilders, the time that they're going to use an acetate or like a short Esther is,
37:33Speaker 4you know, days before their show for specific fine tuning. Yeah. Yep. For building or off-site, off season, it's all along and Yeah. So sippy Nate,
37:49Speaker 4again, this isn't TRT, right? Yeah. Yeah. Kind of draw the line. That is weird. Be honest about, be honest with yourself about what you're doing.
38:18Speaker 4kind of in the school that I don't think Primo is as good as people say it is just because it's so mild.
38:47Speaker 3do you personally have to take do you aromatize a lot? Can you, do you need to take any arimidex,
38:52Speaker 4Semaglutide? Nope. Nope. I've never had problems with gyno. I've never the only time is like if I go over
39:00Speaker 4Holy shit. Ran into 2 g. Yeah. At 1 time in my twenties, I had real big problems with my BP and like, you know, heart and heart health, cardiovascular health. So I've been much more mild in the last 5 years or so.
39:26Speaker 4same thing with peptides, like lowest effective dose. Absolutely. Yeah. And so if I was to add to that, I would say that,
39:39Speaker 41 thing that has probably moved the needle the most in terms of my overall progress has been adding growth hormone. Absolutely.
39:52Speaker 4right now I'm doing 6 IU a day, which is it's still a moderate dose, right? Like there are some guys that are going as high as 15, 20 IU a day. They must be rich. I I know.
40:03Speaker 4I've gone as high as 8 a day, but you know, then you start dealing with some of the side effects related to that carpal tunnel with joints stiffen up. It's uncomfortable.
40:13Speaker 3and dude. And how do you space those? If you take it safe, how do you space them? You don't do them all at once. Just do 6 IU before bed. Do you? Oh, do you really? Yeah. People do a split dose, but yeah.
40:32Speaker 4I look a lot since I started the growth hormone, it's noticeable. It's breathless. Yeah. So, mean, yes,
40:50Speaker 4at least not eat any food, I don't know, an hour or at least or more before that? Yeah. So if you want, I can if you would like me to, I can explain. Yeah. Yeah. Give it to us. Absolutely. Okay. So there's a paradox paradoxical relationship between IGF-one production, which is what growth hormone turns into in the liver Mhmm. And insulin.
41:09Speaker 4insulin, insulin like growth factor 1. That's what it stands for. Okay. So they behave
41:32Speaker 4hormone that you guys may know of, Tesamorelin, CJC called growth hormone related hormone, GHRH. When
41:51Speaker 4Meaning my blood glucose, my blood sugar needs to be low. My insulin level needs to be low. Okay. Yep. When that growth hormone is produced, the amplitude or the size of that pulse is dictated based upon how hungry I am. Good. That's what the ghrelin is doing. Okay?
42:05Speaker 4Then when growth hormone is produced at the pituitary, it's floating around in my blood and that's where it's doing all of the fat burning collagen repair.
42:13Speaker 4It's helping me recover for lack of a better term. Growth hormone is spectacular for your skin. I would make the argument that is just as good if not better than GHK for your skin and your soft tissue. Like growth hormone is spectacular. I tell women all the time, growth hormone.
42:47Speaker 4where you get the muscle building, the recovery, right? The repair of the muscle tissue
43:05Speaker 4Like, I, like, if I, if my testosterone is low and I take a growth hormone related peptide,
43:11Speaker 4I'm not really gonna get that good results when it comes to muscle building. 100%. Or vice versa. Right? If I just take the testosterone and my IGF-one levels aren't where they should be.
43:21Speaker 4So we want these both elevated. Sure. And so from that perspective, that's kind of how all that works. And so this is exactly why the state that you take the growth hormone in matters. Because
43:35Speaker 4now that growth hormone has time to float around in my blood do all the great things for recovery. And then the next time I eat, which is in the morning when I wake up, that gets converted to IGF-one.
43:45Speaker 4And now I get the muscle building benefits that come with that cortisol spike and the recovery that I'm looking for. Awesome. If I don't, if I take it while I have insulin in my blood, now what's gonna happen? Immediately going to be converted into IGF-one and now I'm not getting the benefits. So
44:12Speaker 4they're trying to get that localized muscle growth that comes from the IGF-one versus why guys will take their HGH at night so they can get the maximum benefit from it. Yep. Or in the morning, I'm assuming you wait to eat. Yep. Yeah, absolutely. And then
44:32Speaker 4that's where the decision tree comes from. It's not about when you take it like at night versus before bed. It's actually when you eat. It's a blood state. Yes, exactly. And the reason I would say I tell people in the mornings is great. You just came off a long fast no matter what. And plus I
44:49Speaker 4lot of people have a hard time. I don't wanna try to fall asleep hungry. And then the other thing to consider, and this has kind of been a question that's been raised, is like, about GLP-one agonists?
45:02Speaker 4of the food that I'm consuming, how does that affect my fasted state when I do my GH? Absolutely. So I actually recently started suggesting
45:12Speaker 4classes of drugs to do their GH in the morning and then wait to eat because that's basically the biggest guarantee that you're gonna be fasted. For sure. Yeah. Right. I don't know if it's going to affect it because I don't have like a glucose
45:27Speaker 4But what I do know is if I sleep for 8 hours without eating, like that's when I'm supposed to call it breakfast.
45:35Speaker 3For sure. That has been an argument, and that has been something that I kinda have brought up recently. It's been going on. Hey, guys. Like, here's
45:47Speaker 3take them far apart, but we know these GLP-1s, you know, should be have a active 0.5 life maybe 5 days and you, and you're taking them, especially Retatrut, right? It's pushing insulin
46:09Speaker 4Not just that, but the original studies that they did on children to evaluate whether or not growth hormone turned off exogenous
46:25Speaker 4And the biggest natural pulse you get of growth hormone from your bot, from your brain
46:31Speaker 4happens when you're in deep sleep and REM at about 2, 03:00 in the morning. Mhmm. So in my mind, was like, okay, well, if I wake up at 6,
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47:49Speaker 4I I basically got a freebie in the middle of the night. Yeah. Sure. That I wouldn't have gotten had I done the GH before bed. Yep. Right. True. So,
47:56Speaker 4again, the only way to really be able to tell this as far as this is like with CGM, right? Like a continuous glucose monitor, which you can get them pretty cheap, but I
48:07Speaker 4was, that's kind of my logic behind the. 0 Thank you. Do you, in regards to the stack that you're speaking of,
48:16Speaker 2lower than most people do it. And it's not because I aromatize pretty easy, but like take that out of a 2nd because I was always, read some stuff so long ago and it always made sense. We keep the test low because we want the compounds that we are taking to really shine. So if you're running mast and you want to do a cutter and you don't want to take
48:41Speaker 2and then a lot higher on the Mastron or whatever gear you're running because that will do its job instead of the testosterone basically
48:49Speaker 2competing and outcompeting the Mastron because it's stronger. Do you agree with that? The indication that you typically follow when you're building a cycle personalized to you when it comes to anabolics is is where you fall with the estrogen
49:03Speaker 4Some guys, they aromatize a lot of tests. Right away. Right? And so that's also gonna decide like what compounds you use, right? But from the perspective of like low test versus allowing the anabolics to step in because there's only so many receptors on the cell,
49:27Speaker 4Mine's probably 500 and yours is probably 200 or so. That's pretty low. For me, I could, I could do 600 mg a test a week and I'm not having any problems with E2.
49:38Speaker 4That's crazy. I guess they're like that. I'm a hyper responder. Like had I gone like the bodybuilding route, I would've been a perfect specimen
49:49Speaker 4so I wouldn't say that that's kind of the rule, but it's definitely 1 of the things you want to consider. What you want to look for is not necessarily just the E2 level,
50:01Speaker 4right? Is there sensitivity behind the nipple? Are you starting to get hardness here, irritable, trouble sleeping,
50:08Speaker 4you wanna look at the E2 and if it's out of range, okay, maybe we should start to look at pulling that test back. Break it down. Or that's where you would start to look at adding some type of AI. Sure. And then you just kind of find your sweet spot in terms of your cycle. Some people, they're gonna be on 500 tests, 400 masked,
50:30Speaker 2Yeah. That's why the bros science will just because this work for Ron doesn't mean it's going to work for you. It's just like macros, right? Like
50:38Speaker 4if you ask me what my macros are and I tell you, like I do, I don't do very well with high fat. Yeah. Yeah. People are gonna like, oh, well shit. If I just do that, I'll look like you. Right? Exactly. Like you have to find your specific, what the way that your body works. And it takes time, consistency and time literally.
50:58Speaker 0Yeah. What about you, JD? What are your favorite? I always start, I always start lower testosterone,
51:03Speaker 2you know, because I've always, you know, converted to estrogen fairly quickly, but, I've always started with Winstraw dude. Like,
51:10Speaker 2I don't get achy. I do really well with it. Winstraw hits like the son of a bitch right away. So, you know, I'll always start the cycle with Winstraw at 1st for a month, give or take, and then I'll go into like a Mastron, you know, if I wanna run sometimes a Mast and Primo just because they're very similar. I like the cutters and just being hard. Was I gonna say you like being shredded hard. I do. Yeah. Like, I'm not a big bulker. I don't even think I've ever been around a big bulk bulking cycle. It's just not my thing. But
51:50Speaker 0I do too. Like, if you're talking an oral paper, they say Anabar's much more Anabar. My gosh. People love Anabar. They like Winstraw, but so does Winstraw. Anabar is for girls, bro. Yeah. I did. Hey, bro. But they get Probably the most popular, dude. They Oh, it is the most popular because it's the weakest and people think Clean. That It's the safest. They're like Starter off. They're scared to do it. Well, it's also an oral. Right? So you have the threshold for starting as much lower. It's kind of like peptides, right?
52:14Speaker 4Part of the reason why people don't do gears because they're afraid of it. Peptides are more, I guess, lower thresholds for entry. Absolutely.
52:25Speaker 45 years, there's going be more people than ever doing gear because peptides are like, well shit. We've already seen some people move over to their like, and that's actually a good point because I think guys like us, while being open about it and being willing to have these conversations in the public forum for people to observe,
52:47Speaker 4this shit. You have to encourage people to do it the right way. Get your lab work done, be monitoring your BP, like all this stuff.
53:04Speaker 0Right. It's the same thing with kids. Anything abused is a problem. Like anything like done with like strategically,
53:10Speaker 4it's like, you know, it's not as big a deal as people make it, but And I mean, I've got like kids that are 18, 19 years old on Instagram messaging me about the, about doing the steroid cycle. I'm like, like you
53:37Speaker 4what I take and what I don't take, But I always try to make sure that at the end of that, I'm like, Hey, like,
53:44Speaker 3but But there's this, I mean, There's a disclaimer folks like, yes, I have taken gear and I,
53:53Speaker 310 years and I'm personally okay with that. Yes. It's a personal choice. And I'm personally okay and take some damn responsibility for all the side effects and manage those.
54:08Speaker 340 years, that's my fault. You're fucked. And I will live with the I will live those consequences. I will not blame it on anybody.
54:14Speaker 3There's that. And these and, like, anabolics do come with, like, you better be ready to manage side effects. There is
54:24Speaker 2there's a there's an equal reaction Mhmm. But or greater. You said it that you like, be a grown up. Like, if you don't know the difference between different esters, don't take it yet. Like, read about it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, had a guy ask me and I'm like, dude, you're not ready for this, dude. Like, don't if you don't know the difference between these 2, don't do it. Or you can't Google something? Literally, bro. Like, you have You're asking me what Tesamorelin
54:57Speaker 3will so if I'm doing like a cycle, Sustanotan is my favorite. And I just because baby, like, I'm
55:03Speaker 3an ex drug addict and I like things to, like, work now. So I like the fact that it's got the prop in it. Even though I still feel a little oomph, like, right?
55:14Speaker 3Yeah, I'm probably better off going every day, absolutely, but whatever. Doing it 3 days a week. Anyway, Sussan and I like the I like the the prop right in the female prop that hits now a little bit later in a few days. And then it also has some tail end
55:31Speaker 3in the back end. Anyway, so there and then dude, I don't know, Mastodon is my favorite.
55:41Speaker 3It's it makes me like it's a happy steroid. Right? I'm not getting agro and no like, you know,
56:04Speaker 3immediately if I get chemo? So I just don't do it anymore. Wind stalls probably 1 of my favorite. Like I come from like a sports background.
56:12Speaker 3Never when I was actually like playing competitive sports was I even the 1st time I ever tested this stuff, was 29 years old. So, and let that be a disclaimer to your kids too.
56:37Speaker 3Primo, yeah, dude, I don't know. It starts really no, oh, windstorms. I going say this is fun playing basketball, windstorm until you tear a muscle really easy. But
56:56Speaker 3And you can But do Carderine's another 1 that I really like. I know it's not an anabolic steroid, but I really noticed that stuff works. It makes
57:05Speaker 4athletic competition kind of fun. I used to do Carderine for my jujitsu competition. There you go. That's a huge
57:11Speaker 0difference. Yeah. And a lot of people come back to that trend, right, because trend just kills your cardiovascular ability.
57:29Speaker 3Reality free testosterone. Towards the end of the cycle, but, but I have never ran anything more than 6, maybe 700 megs of tests a week. And
57:44Speaker 3And I don't think it's really going to do that much more. Diminishing the turns of the more and more testosterone.
57:50Speaker 41 I think for me, it comes to a point where it's like, all right, bro, like, what are we really doing this for?
57:57Speaker 4know, I'm a social media influencer. Like, I'm never going to step on a bodybuilding. Why
58:21Speaker 4think it's just the fact that everybody was underwhelmed by the outcomes in the enhanced games is just proof that everybody was already fucking enhanced in the game. There's that. For sure.
58:31Speaker 2I don't even I I don't think and and if you're a professional athlete, I don't who gives a shit? Yeah. Like, they're gonna get the best if they're gonna get blood work. Like, who cares? I think they've never thought it was a big deal. I think Barry Bonds is a
58:52Speaker 3that pharmacy in Florida and South Florida, where they started, like they gave Menemor Ramirez and
59:00Speaker 0was really, it's interesting. He's only getting very bossy. He is the 1st 1 to get popped with it. And basically they'd go to the doctor and doctor would say, here's test prop or even test just suspension.
59:10Speaker 0They said, do not do this on a game day because that's the only days that they test. Right? But when you're that fucking good at baseball normally,
59:18Speaker 0right, you have a little bit of test. So he would do like in a tiny bit, like, wait, I don't know, 0.5 a cc on non game days every day.
59:26Speaker 0Would and it'd be out of him on actual game days, but it would still be working. He said the 1st, like the 1st at bat I had that baseball looked like a basketball coming down the pike. Like,
59:45Speaker 0then Manny said, he called him 1 day and said, dude, I know I agree to you. I did my shot this morning
59:56Speaker 3brought down everything. Dude. Then everybody else was making those same damn mistakes. But it's really interesting about how it was nobody guy that You had 1 job. Yeah. 1 job.
1:00:15Speaker 3football players are running, I don't know, maybe a little bit of but, like, you can't you can't do that like that much of an endurance sport
1:00:28Speaker 3They just, they fizzled out through injuries. Right? Your tendons and ligaments can't handle it. Baseball's a perfect sport to do. It's just not a lot of running. Yeah. But good luck with the basketball player. Now there is some other in it, but there is some performance enhancer. You can absolutely take. My thing is, is I always look at the kids that go from like high school to college.
1:00:48Speaker 4Jacked. What happened? What did, what did they give you? Yeah. Right? Like there's gotta be something. I'm obviously I've never played d 1 football, but Maybe you can speak to that. They, bro, some of these people,
1:00:59Speaker 3I mean, you eat and the coaches stop by every dinner. Hey, eat more. Eat more. Right? I can't show you how many times after dinner I threw up because I was just forced myself to eat so damn much and just you're taught to stretch your stomach out so then we can put
1:01:28Speaker 3So gain some weight, but I probably gained, you know, 45 pounds in the Yeah, that's a lot. And not taking,
1:01:39Speaker 0levels. A young kid who's just bulking. I mean, of these They're eating. The Simoans on our team, man, they would just get giants.
1:01:47Speaker 4I'm glad that said that though, because that's exact perfect reason why these young kids don't need to be on gear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Trio team, baby, you just you just train. Bro. What's what's your fiance? When are you big? Eat big. Yeah, dude. And And that's, and that kind of goes into, I think is the other piece that I think people significantly
1:02:06Speaker 4is go watch every documentary of every big bodybuilder where they talk about their routine and preparation for the Olympia.
1:02:22Speaker 4most people, especially the average day to day guy, not even coming close. Yeah. Now we're nowhere near.
1:02:30Speaker 3I mean, Protein and like diet, know, it's funny. Like we've talked about this before the best diet advice, like, what should I eat? Like just eat a lot of protein. All of it. Just all of it. But like even you want to get ripped up, like eat protein. Don't even, if we're just want to oversimplify
1:02:44Speaker 3it, don't worry about your fat. Right? Don't eat a butt. Don't eat a whole ton of carbs, but just get your protein. You'll get enough fat
1:02:51Speaker 4and you'll build enough muscle and that will help burn fat and build muscle and love and love. Too ladies, especially women. They don't need enough protein. Yeah. And that kind of goes in, you asked about the men earlier in terms of like big things I see for men on labs and like their mistakes,
1:03:18Speaker 2Yeah. Well, and a lot of them think that like getting into shape is the treadmill. It's resistance training and protein. You wanna be, you wanna be toned. Right? The toned look you're looking for is increasing your muscle
1:03:36Speaker 4and then you'll become more lean and you're going to get that toned look you're looking for. Becoming more skinny on a treadmill is
1:04:08Speaker 41 mg a week is the highest I can go where it's manageable and I'm not completely miserable all the time. Sure.
1:04:22Speaker 4and I talked about this in the past about like why you don't get response. Some people don't respond to like MOTS-1C and NAD plus, but like I've tried and fooled around with like the mitochondrial type stuff. And honestly, I don't really,
1:04:36Speaker 4So for me, it's just real basic. 1 I just stick to the Reta and the GH. Honestly, it's both are great. Nice. 2 of my faves. What are you taking right now,
1:04:53Speaker 2and that's great. It gives me energy. I take that and I've been loving that. And HGH is for sure. 2 I use is what I take, man, and it's just perfect for me. Love it.
1:05:01Speaker 2What am I taking? I like AOD. A lot of people don't like it. It is very wide range of some people just think it sucks. I think it's great. Doesn't accuse your IGF-one. It just has a job to burn fat. So I'm a cutter guy. So I love AOD.
1:05:26Speaker 0I hate calling her my girlfriend. Been with her so long and like, like on the verge of
1:05:32Speaker 32 old to be calling this girl, my girlfriend, but I'm about a couple of weeks away from the top of the question. You don't have to get the government involved in marriage. You were right. I don't have to. True. True.
1:06:19Speaker 0took 5 units of Retta this morning, which is 0.5 a milligram. And I'm probably going to start doing that twice a week. Really not for like, I don't know, just for brain
1:06:28Speaker 0function. If I don't eat as much, plus I guess I'm trying to like cut down, lean out a little bit before I go on vacation.
1:06:34Speaker 4A lot of people I know, they say they like to stay stick with a, even just a very small lower dose of Retta just because of the mental aspect of the, you
1:06:52Speaker 4I would have eaten that whole plate. But since I am, you know, I have the little, the little bit of extra self control. Whether
1:06:59Speaker 4that's right or wrong. And if they think that and they don't, works for me. And that's my opinion, right? Like, is that true? Yeah. Maybe it is because it is to you.
1:07:17Speaker 4I don't believe 1 this works very well. Yeah. A lot of people, but you know, you got JD sitting here saying, love it. Well, guess what? Like, if he feels like it's working for Yeah.
1:07:37Speaker 2you want to have fun, just look through our comments, man. You're more like, why are you I'm not joking, but I had a oh, we had Paul back to her sitting here and I asked him a question about fasting. That's it. I just want to know his opinion on fasting and cancer.
1:07:56Speaker 2curing cancer because they were like, this guy was like going off in the comments and then he goes into my DMs, you fucking dis I'm like, brother.
1:08:09Speaker 4You're having a moment. Yeah. I'm give you a 2nd to just Have you thought about scrolling past this post?
1:08:20Speaker 2we enjoyed it. Again, you and I have been talking for hours, man, and, we appreciate your time. Know what, a little cool story about Josh. We started rapping and
1:08:28Speaker 2I said, Hey, let's just get you in here. And we decided like the date he's like, I'm booking my flight. And it was just boom, boom, boom, boom. Like, I'm like, you're, we're going to get along great bro.
1:08:44Speaker 4Thank you. I appreciate that. Because they're all looking, they're like, this guy's not that big. Promise I'm gonna be like, hey,
1:08:54Speaker 2What a a good time, man. So we, we'll have you back on. It's been a great time. I could we could sit here and talk forever, man. And like I said, a good friendship is obviously forming and anything,
1:09:05Speaker 2again, where can people find you? Yeah. Josh dot Holyfield on Instagram and Josh Holyfield on YouTube, best place. Cool, man. I hope that everybody
1:09:16Speaker 2even though we're all doing the same thing that like, we're just all here to talk and talk about cool shit and have good conversations. And even about the gear, that different stuff, it's just cool conversations, man. That's what this podcast is about growing and evolving and learning from each other. So other than that, you want to have a thing before we split, get join us. He's
1:09:38Speaker 2You'll learn a lot from all of us. We put a shitload of information on there and we keep doing that.
1:09:48Speaker 4anything else 1 thing is out. So I do have 1 thing I want to share with you guys because I don't, I'm surprised you didn't say anything. So JD actually reached out to me what, like 4 months ago.
1:09:59Speaker 4And I was like, I'll get back to you. Yeah. I figured you did some research and I kind of just like, let it sit. You know, at 1st I was like, I was a little kind of unsure.
1:10:15Speaker 4know, and if I'm going to take the time and put my face out there, you know, this isn't something I typically do. I kind of just keep to myself. I wanna make sure that it's in good company. So I wanna say, did, I took the time to observe what you guys were doing,
1:10:28Speaker 4kind of, had an alignment and values. And that was really what led me to make the decision. I wanted to come out here. So kudos to you guys, to appreciate you being a men of integrity instead of,
1:10:40Speaker 2you know, like what we see out there in the world more, more so than not. And we appreciate you saying that, man. Like we said, lighting fires in the hearts of men, man. Right? Yes, sir. All right. I hope everybody enjoyed it and we'll catch you on the next round. See you later. Peace.