Ep 54 · 23:27
Full transcript
Machine transcribed. Not yet read against the audio.
Research use only
Any compounds discussed may be intended for research purposes only. Nothing here is a protocol to follow — amounts, timing and cycle lengths are reported as the named speaker described them.
We are not doctors. Use at your own risk.
0:29Speaker 0a I like to just jump the gun and say he's a peptide guru, but he is a peptide researcher,
0:40Speaker 0out there, so he's a man that knows a lot about a lot. We wanted to bring him on today for obvious reasons. There's a lot of chitter chatter going on in the peptide industry
0:52Speaker 2about new laws coming down the pike and this and that. So we wanted to bring him on to talk about that. Yes. So, Paul, welcome. Honored as always, man. I always appreciate all the work that you guys are doing. I'm a big fan and a friend, I'll say that 1st and foremost. So truly appreciate you guys bringing me back. It's always a lot of fun. Thank you.
1:10Speaker 2How has, how has life been, man? We have not talked to you in a while. I know we're we're luckily all busy, which is a good thing. Definitely a big blessing, man. Life has been life has been great. Thank God. And you know what? It's been busy, so that's always a blessing, especially with all the changes that are going on in the industry right now that I know that we all wanted to talk about. So, yeah, a 100%, it's a blessing to be busy and just rolling with the punches,
1:36Speaker 0You were our 1st call. We started hearing all this chitter chatter, and people are hitting up me and us in our DMs and this and that. I'm like, Let me reach out to Paul, and it's always good to talk with you, you know? And so that's why we wanted to have you on the show. Let me throw the mic over to you. Let's talk Let's about
2:04Speaker 0And they're worried if they're going to be able to get it this and that. So I'm going give you the mic, man. Tell us a little bit about what you have heard on the streets. You have a lot of connections. What's going on out there? Yeah, so all great questions. So 1st and foremost, let's go into
2:30Speaker 2retrutide, and what they're doing is is they're taking it through the last clinical trials to get it FDA approved.
2:36Speaker 2So now Eli Lilly, Novo Nordisk, essentially what they're gonna do is they're gonna create a monopoly on retrutide itself. So what does that mean? It means that essentially if you want to get Retrutide as an end consumer, you're gonna have to go through the compounding pharmacy to get it, and the compounding pharmacy is going to be theirs.
2:54Speaker 2That's the way that they're setting it up. Now this all came to light, and the reason why we're all hearing about it is because about them
3:00Speaker 2as the as the date of this recording, it's, I wanna say, about 6 weeks ago about 6 weeks ago at MAHA, Make America Healthy Again, the entire conference that they had.
3:14Speaker 2had their whole thing at at Washington DC and spoke about, hey, we're taking this through clinical trials. It's almost done. And when it's done, we're gonna have the official monopoly on it. What they actually said that they will still continue to allow to have happen is for the compounding pharmacies to still be able to compound tirzepatide
3:34Speaker 2within the next year, what we're gonna see guys is that some of these other peptides that we all know and love, about 25 to 40 is gonna be my educated
3:54Speaker 2Correct. So basically what they're doing is they're not trying to clamp down and go, Hey, Mr. And Mrs. Consumer, you can't get peptides anymore. That's not what they're trying to do. What they're trying to do is they're trying to realign it. They're trying to medicalize it. They're trying to go, hey. We're gonna retailize this. We're gonna medicalize it and bring it under this umbrella
4:15Speaker 2without being negative. But your guess is as good as mine as to why big pharma's looking to do that and why these things are happening.
4:24Speaker 2That's yeah, we all know. And and basically what they're doing is they're they're they're like, that's why I use these words, medicalization,
4:30Speaker 2retailization is what they're looking to do. Right? Yeah. And they wanna have their hands in
4:56Speaker 2If I make something and I spend all my blood, sweat, and tears and make it, I would like to be the 1 who makes all the money from it. 100%, man. And that's exactly what they're doing. Frankly, their product. Yeah. And at the end of the day, what they want to do is they go, Hey, we're going to take it, and we're going to take it all the way through FDA approval. Once we spent the money to do that, we want to have the monopoly on it. You can still have these peptides at the compounding facility level, but then anything else, it's gonna have to go this way. And the way that it goes is it's gotta go through the 5 0 3 b, 5 0 3 a, and then to the out out to the retail markets. So that's what they're they're pushing now. And when that's gonna happen, you guys are gonna see in the market some of the bigger players in the research use only
5:38Speaker 2that we all know and are familiar with, that we can think about for the last 15 years that have been there. They're gonna start to shift their business models. And those business models are gonna start to go towards telehealth more than anything. And the reason why is because as I just mentioned, for Retatrutide, if you wanna get it, now you're gonna have to go through the the 5 0 threes, right, with the with the physician script being written. So that means that essentially it's gonna have to go through telehealth or a brick and mortar spot.
6:12Speaker 2could be somewhere in the neighborhood of 50, depending on going with the company that we're talking about up to 100% markup, so it'll be there.
6:21Speaker 0for sure. Let's sit on that for a 2nd because people are gonna not know what you just said. You tapped on it for a quick sec, but the 5 0 3, elaborate
6:34Speaker 0A lot of people aren't gonna know what that is. No, no problem. So with the 5 0 3 pharmacies,
6:38Speaker 0what they are is they're compounding pharmacies. Now depending on what kind of compounding pharmacy you are, if you're a 5 0 3 b on the commercial side, if you're a 5 0 3 a on the retail side, so that's what these pharmacies are doing. They're compounders. Right? And then the medical manufacturer
6:54Speaker 0is who's actually making the drug, which would be in this case Eli Lilly Novo Nordisk, that's what we're talking about because they have to follow these channels in order to get it in the hands of the end consumer
7:12Speaker 2and 1st off, when do you think that that is gonna be FDA approved? Like when do you think it's out of FDA approval for? Looks like it's gonna be towards the end of this year. And if not the end of this year, it'll definitely be, Q1 of 20 26, so coming up pretty quickly.
7:27Speaker 1And reinform us of what has the holdup been on its approval? I think I have some ideas, but because there has been
7:40Speaker 2So some of the things that they've been struggling with in the human clinical trials was the sensitization
7:44Speaker 2of skin, that was another big 1 with touch, which is kind of interesting. So that's why they were playing with the with the doses as they were going through it. Because 1st thing went they went 2, then they, milligrams, then they jumped up to 9,
7:59Speaker 212 and 16. They go, woah. Woah. This is too high. Let's let's redo this. Then then they went 2, they went to 4, they went to 8, and then 12. So that's where you're seeing this kind of range of between a starting dose typically at, like, 2 mg up to 12 being the highest.
8:19Speaker 2to touch is happening, and that's when you know you gotta dial back that dose for that person.
8:29Speaker 2Talk Elevated to heart rate. Heart rate? Thought you said heart rate. I guess someone's getting hurt. No, no, no, no. Yeah,
8:41Speaker 2just a barrier. Yes, that has been. When people are titrating too fast or just kind of are bumping them way too fast. It's kind of the thing that we see with just about any peptide is if depending on the titration schedule,
8:52Speaker 2depending on where the injection is happening, if there's not enough surface area for the peptide to go through, these are the types of things that you'll happen. It happens all the time with GHRPs
9:01Speaker 2or NAD plus, which is a coenzyme. But you'll see these things happen, which is is kinda normal. The reason why they're it slowed them down is because they really when they're going through these clinical trials, they have to make sure that everything that they're doing is gonna be something that on a human being, they can without a doubt go, yeah, this is working for them. You know? Wish they would have done that with other things in in the past, but with this 1 because they know that in the next 10 years look, this is gonna be so big, guys, that we're just having this discussion, but I want your audience to hear it. This is as if when Botox came out, how crazy that was, when we standardized
9:36Speaker 2testosterone replacement therapy, hormone therapy, this is the next best thing, the next biggest and best thing that's gonna just take the market like for the next decade and go nuts. So that's what's happening. That's why they're so
9:49Speaker 0targeted and specific with it and keeping it and gatekeeping it really is what it is. They know what it's worth. Yeah, they know what it's worth and how long it's going to be. Think, you know, we were all talking off camera about it's going to take the market for at least 10 years, so they I know what it's
10:09Speaker 0a lot of people are just getting into peptides, they're confused, they don't know where to begin, so they do know about Retatrutide because it's been such a powerful
10:24Speaker 0But so what does that mean in regards to telehealth? So you have companies that you can get it off the internet, they're everywhere. Yep. And then that's going to affect, these laws are going to affect those companies in your opinion?
10:37Speaker 2eventually it can for sure. So that's why you're gonna see some of the major players from the research use only peptide space start to they'll still keep research use only going, but you might see them start to take off the GLP-1s
10:52Speaker 2And then what you'll also see is that they they're gonna start to create a telehealth vertical. Why are they doing that? Well, the reason why they're gonna create that telehealth vertical is so that they can compliantly still be able to offer Retatrutide
11:08Speaker 2Sure. Yeah. So that what does that mean for the consumer? I I know it's a rhetorical question, but I'm glad to Yeah. No. Great question, man. So for the consumer, what that actually means is they're gonna have to go through the,
11:22Speaker 2through the doctor visit. They're gonna have to pay a little bit more money there for the annual physician fees. They're gonna have to pay the the new pricing on the compounding pharmacy level and the retailer level for the same peptide that they were getting before. That maybe they were getting on a research use only site,
11:45Speaker 1Telehealth folks, everybody, if you're not quite informed, like, when we dropped this telehealth vertical,
11:51Speaker 1it is just basically, it says, that means you go to your doctor and get a prescription. Long time now. That's it. There's nothing
11:58Speaker 1special about telehealth or easier. I mean, it's just, yeah, you just- It's an online doctor. You said it online. Yep, that's it, literally.
12:06Speaker 0Simplest form, it's just gonna drive up the price because you have more people that gotta get paid. Doctors are gonna get paid well, and they're gonna be able to put their margin on it. Yeah. Sure. And they've earned the doctorate, so they can. The supply,
12:35Speaker 0so let's take a step away from those for a 2nd. How is that going to affect peptides in general, BOT C
12:42Speaker 2and the BPC-one hundred 57 and just the typical ones that people love? Yeah, man, I love that question too, because, so in the beginning of this conversation, that's where I was mentioning that about 25 to 40 of these peptides
12:53Speaker 2eventually within the next year, we're gonna start to see them become FDA approved as well. Because as I was saying, your guess is as good as mine why they're doing it, but we all know why they're doing it is because essentially they're they're
13:08Speaker 2the research use only market. They're looking to start to push it towards their compounding pharmacies this way so they can also regulate it. Now the interesting thing is is that they when I say they, let me back up and be more specific, the FDA.
13:23Speaker 2I'd realize- They. Because we have so many conversations offline that I go, oh, wait, we would let me do this for the audience. So getting better, fellas. Thanks for bearing with me. Forgive me, audience. I'm a clinical researcher nerd, so I gotta remember who I'm talking to at times.
14:01Speaker 2what they did was they go, hey. These are all on the do not compound list because we're gonna not allow all of these other peptides, BPC, all the ones that we know and love, TB 500, we're not gonna allow the compounding pharmacies to continue compounding them. Because what they were doing was trying to figure out a way that they could do the same thing that they just did with retrutide,
14:20Speaker 2which is take it through the FDA approval process. Well, well, why? And how why was that an issue? Well, it was an issue because the question it begged the question,
14:29Speaker 2peptides are just all natural amino acids. They're all natural amino acids that are already being produced within the human body. So how are you gonna patent
14:38Speaker 2something that is already being naturally produced within the human body? Well, now they've figured out a way through semantics, through the right wording to go, oh, well, this signaling molecule is now actually
14:50Speaker 2because it's eliciting this kind of a specific response from the human body. It's doing x y z. So now because it's a biologic, it can be patented. And what they're gonna patent is really the brand name of it. So remember
15:06Speaker 2retrutide, we don't know the name yet. That's what they're gonna have their monopoly on. Right?
15:19Speaker 2spoken with in great detail because they are in DC. And what's happening is they're saying, hey, we know that within the next year or so, about 25 to 40 peptides are gonna get FDA approval.
15:30Speaker 2And once that happens, it's gonna get out of that research use only space and go into the telehealth
15:37Speaker 2compounding pharmacy brick and mortar space with a doctor script. So that's a big difference here.
15:48Speaker 2that are Is that how That think would have been a much better way to say it than what I just said.
15:54Speaker 0That's what I took from it. So just You be know me, man, I'd be very direct. I love it. But yeah, I mean,
15:59Speaker 0it's obviously methodical. It's going to take some time for them to do it, but that's why they would make these so many FDA approved so that they can get them away from certain companies that people have been using. You name it. Which
16:13Speaker 2there's pros and cons. You're gonna have some crappy companies out there that are, you know, faking the COAs and all these things, and we know that, but there's also some good companies out there as well. There's definitely some great companies out there, you know, that we all know and love. And the thing is is that I also understand it to your point. You're 1000000 percent right, Jay, is that they wanna stop the snake oil salesman. Right? They wanna stop the bad actors, and I get it. And what
16:38Speaker 2really sucks is that it's going to be the same type of thing that we see oh god, I don't mean to be political, but I was gonna say that we see, like, with with other
16:47Speaker 2things that are controlled. Right? So, you know, they they clamp down on the good actors at the same time, and that's the unfortunate part. Right? But, yeah, to your point, you're absolutely correct in my opinion.
16:59Speaker 0Drive it underground, drive it to the street. Yeah, because that's what happens. I mean, it does go underground. It doesn't, like, not it can get a good It's usually the bad ones who are gonna persist and- Yeah.
17:20Speaker 1Here's the interesting thing. I mean, what does this say about peptides in general, right? We have been talking about peptides and how
17:26Speaker 1freaking cool they are and how they really work, right? Absolutely. And how amazing these things are. And there's still a ton of people who are like, you know, this
17:41Speaker 2Very. We're gonna write why they're so popular is you guys know what I know. The reason why they're so popular, and I say this all the time to someone who hasn't tried peptides, I go, you know why peptides are so popular? Because they work.
17:56Speaker 2And when I break it down to a lot of the doctors that I train, right, at the clinical level where I go, Look, when you think about it, all we've done in the medical community, and I say this all the time, so forgive me for repeating myself to your audience, but when you take the 191 amino acid sequence, the at full spectrum, right, the entire amino acid sequence, that becomes human growth hormone, which is what we are all producing within ourselves.
18:21Speaker 2is a fragment of that amino acid sequence within 2 to 50 chain bond that we've sequenced together in a specific format to elicit a specific response from the human body. So that's all these we're already producing all of them. That's human growth hormone, you, me, and every human being on Earth. So that's why when we're taking those signaling molecules and putting it back into us, they freaking work. And it gets the body to do what it wants to do naturally before, you know, whatever happened to us happened, age, stress, environmental factors, and it turns it back on to want it to heal itself and do what it naturally should be doing anyways.
18:53Speaker 1Yeah, I love that. I love how you broke that down. That's awesome. So you- go ahead. Can I ask, I just kind of want to ask one- Yeah, we- question that we've not prepared you for, but- Yeah? If you don't have any, nothing strikes you.
19:07Speaker 2that you've heard of or that has just come out that you're are you most excited about? The peptide that I'm the most excited about right now that's showing a lot of promise through clinical studies over in London,
19:21Speaker 2And there's some really incredible stuff going on out there. Wow, that's kind of interesting. That's cool. Yeah.
19:29Speaker 0Because people are gonna wanna get the best information out there. So kind of to wrap this all around again,
19:37Speaker 0LP ones we talked about, but the other ones are gonna be a little bit harder to get. It's gonna be a little betrayal. It's gonna take a while for them to get FDA approved. That's probably gonna take a while, right? You're come off 30 to 40, said, that's a lot.
20:07Speaker 0throw a curveball at you, and, you were losing a lot of weight and you were greatly overweight, you needed to lose a 100 pound and you loved it, and you were coming into this next year, what would you do?
20:21Speaker 2wouldn't even play around. Like if it's working for you, you like it, you wanna have it, stock yourself up. Like, just go ahead. If you have a good trusted source that you all know and love, and it's been working great, I would just say go for it right now. Don't even hesitate because you don't know what's gonna happen December 31.
20:52Speaker 2with the lyophilized It'll last a long, long time. Yeah. With lyophilized powder, that can last you 2 years.
21:02Speaker 2where can they find you? Oh, I'm Paul Bachtior across all socials and that's B A K H T I A R. Feel free to reach out to me guys with any questions. And I wanted to say this also to your audience.
21:14Speaker 2You guys have a freaking kick ass audience. I I appreciate the community that you guys have built.
21:20Speaker 2It's real. It's genuine. It's people that care about themselves and their health. And every time I talk to anyone that comes from you guys, I love how they introduce it. Hey, man. Saw you on Peptide of the Week. Hey, man. JD and Will. Saw these guys. And I I freaking love it. And and you guys have even gone international
21:36Speaker 2with with 1 of the 1 of the clients that we were speaking about just right before, so I love the impact that you guys have on the industry. I'm honored to come on here all the time, anytime,
21:45Speaker 0and truly enjoy it, man. You guys are 1st class, so thank you. We share a passion, man, and that's what Will and I try to surround ourselves with, you know, everybody that works with us too. Like, it's just, we love what we do. We try to help in any way that we can, man, in doubt. So that's why we love you, brother. It shows, bro. It definitely shows. I appreciate you guys.
22:06Speaker 0We have some cool things coming. Looking forward to it. Podcast is almost done. We'll have you live. That would be fun. So we'll make it happen.
22:13Speaker 0Yeah, we'll make it happen. So, alright, man. Well, anything else? Take us out. That's it, dude. Thank you. Thank you. And our
22:30Speaker 1everybody is tough behind a computer and behind a phone. Right? And it's cool to see, like, his followers. Like, when somebody says some negative bad stuff,
22:46Speaker 1hope it's because we are just trying to be I don't know. We are trying to do good and give good information,
22:55Speaker 1Definitely. Not just tell everybody that things are just unicorns and rainbows all the time. But
23:07Speaker 2I'm honored to call you guys my friends as well, dude. So thank you. And thank you to your audience. Appreciate it.
23:12Speaker 0Yes, sir. Right on, man. We'll talk to you soon, brother. All right, you guys take care. We'll see you next time. Have a good 1.