Peptide of the Week: TRT & HCG – Why Testosterone Optimization Comes First Peptide of the Week https://peptideoftheweekpod.com/episodes/peptide-of-the-week-trt-hcg-why-testosterone-optimization-comes-first/transcript We are not doctors. The content on this site is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Any compounds discussed may be intended for research purposes only. Use at your own risk. Amounts, timing and cycle lengths below are reported as the named speaker described them. Nothing here is a protocol to follow. --- 0:09 Speaker 0: What's up, my friends? Welcome back to the Peptide of the Week Podcast. 0:13 Speaker 0: I'm your host, JD Denham, and I got my buddy across the way, William T. Haas. 0:19 Speaker 0: What's up, my man? 0:21 Speaker 0: It's good, man. It's good. Like, this is 0:24 Speaker 0: gonna be a good podcast, man. It's something I know you and I like to talk about. We've been doing it a long time, just kind 0:31 Speaker 0: of before we started recording, we were just trying to figure out what should we talk about. There's so much. 0:36 Speaker 0: So for those of you, just to let you know, to be clear, we are not doctors, we don't pretend to be doctors. We're just 2 dudes that have been doing supplements and trying different things for a very long time since we've helped a lot of people with these types of things as well. So just for fun, we're not doctors, so you should know that. 0:53 Speaker 0: But today we're going to take little bit different 0:56 Speaker 0: of approach on this. I know it's Peptide of the Week podcast, but we also talk about other supplements that are important as in testosterone 1:05 Speaker 0: replacement. 1:06 Speaker 0: We are huge fans of that, if you didn't already know that. And we're going to throw an HCG 1:11 Speaker 0: into the mix just because it goes well with testosterone replacement. 1:15 Speaker 0: So, 1:16 Speaker 0: we're going to take a little bit of a different approach. We're going to put the peptides on hold for this 1:21 Speaker 0: episode and talk a little bit about testosterone 1:24 Speaker 0: replacement therapy. So Will, I'm going to throw it over to you. In your opinion, 1:30 Speaker 0: why should any man take it in their specific age? What would you say? Why should somebody that's not on testosterone, 1:38 Speaker 0: why would they be on it? Why should they look into it? Okay. 1:42 Speaker 1: Well, 1:44 Speaker 1: I guess there's a lot of reasons. 1:47 Speaker 1: Testosterone is basically what makes a man a man. 1:51 Speaker 1: There is 1:53 Speaker 1: a ton of reasons that- Sorry, I'm having a little technical difficulties. 1:57 Speaker 1: There's a ton of reasons that a person should 2:00 Speaker 1: be on it. 2:05 Speaker 1: If you have low testosterone, 2:07 Speaker 1: you're going to have a whole lot less energy. Your sex drive 2:11 Speaker 1: is gonna be depleted. Right? You're 2:14 Speaker 1: gonna 2:15 Speaker 1: not be able to build muscle. You're gonna grow you're gonna be able accumulate 2:19 Speaker 1: fat and not be able to burn it off. Period. 2:23 Speaker 1: Your brain, you won't be able to sleep as well. You'll have a little more anxiety. Right? It'll affect your mood. You will not be as happy. Like, we actually 2:32 Speaker 1: right. All of our neurotransmitters 2:34 Speaker 1: in our brain 2:35 Speaker 1: health comes from testosterone. 2:38 Speaker 1: It's not just our sex. It is a sex hormone, but 2:43 Speaker 1: it can change your life if you're deficient. Ask a lot of people who are extremely deficient in how this has saved 2:50 Speaker 1: their lives. 2:52 Speaker 1: You'll hear 2:53 Speaker 1: from them 2:54 Speaker 1: a lot how this has just completely changed their lives. Literally. I suppose 2:59 Speaker 1: I wouldn't 3:01 Speaker 1: you know, there's a different there's a age. I so so for talking about this, it's important just to note, you know, us men, 3:08 Speaker 1: we have a lot of natural testosterone, and we have a little bit of estrogen, kind of opposite for women. 3:14 Speaker 1: Right? So 3:16 Speaker 1: our body likes this ratio. 3:19 Speaker 1: As we get older, our natural test output just decreases. 3:24 Speaker 1: They say, I don't know, and it's kind of subjective, but 35 years old, 3:28 Speaker 1: 40, we really start to see a decline. 3:32 Speaker 1: But 3:33 Speaker 1: our body doesn't like to do anything redundant. 3:35 Speaker 1: Okay? So if you are giving yourself actual testosterone, 3:39 Speaker 1: your body and your nuts are going to say, look how much I got now. 3:43 Speaker 1: Let's say factory down there. Let's slow down on our creation. 3:49 Speaker 1: Natural output, if you do testosterone, 3:52 Speaker 1: your natural output is gonna slow down because your body thinks you have this much. It doesn't wanna keep creating a whole bunch if you already have a whole bunch. Again, it doesn't want to do anything redundant. 4:00 Speaker 1: So if you're young and you are have a healthy testosterone level, 4:05 Speaker 1: I would suggest you don't do any testosterone because all it's going to do is 4:10 Speaker 1: kill your natural test. 4:12 Speaker 1: Now, 4:13 Speaker 1: in my experience, 4:15 Speaker 1: I think that there are a ton of horror stories out there. Man, my experience is telling me a lot that these horror stories aren't as true. Like, men bounce back a whole lot better than, 4:24 Speaker 1: I guess, is generally thought out there. 4:27 Speaker 1: As far as if you've done it, you know, I see people 4:32 Speaker 1: bouncing back and kind of re after they stop you know, when they get off the testosterone, they'll, their natural test will build back up. Now, there are horror stories out there that are true. Right? There has been a person that has injected testosterone once, and they have never ever created 4:48 Speaker 1: tests ever again in their lifetime. Right? That's 1 obvious 4:52 Speaker 1: extreme, right? I have friends who have 4:56 Speaker 1: ran testosterone for 20 years and still get their spouses pregnant 5:00 Speaker 1: with a little bit of help with HCG and then clomiphene. But 5:04 Speaker 1: it all depends on, yes, each individual person's kind of biology. 5:10 Speaker 0: Yeah, as always, everybody's 5:12 Speaker 0: going to be a little bit different. 5:14 Speaker 0: I'll tell a little story about what led me onto this whole track of testosterone replacement. Anybody that has followed any of my channels knows I got sober at 33, 5:24 Speaker 0: I've always been into health and fitness and exercise and all that. 5:28 Speaker 0: And when I got sober, I dove headfirst into it. I just was just, know, eating right, working out, lifting weights, all the above, right? And 5:36 Speaker 0: right around 38 is a give or take, I started getting really chunky and just, 5:42 Speaker 0: you know, for me at least, and the worst part was I felt like absolute crap, man. I thought something was wrong with me. I literally was starting to think, Man, I must have done something with my drug abuse and all that stuff. I started to think there was something wrong with me. And true story there, I was listening to a Joe Rogan podcast and he was talking to 1 of his comedian 6:02 Speaker 0: buddies about testosterone replacement, 6:05 Speaker 0: saying, Dude, you gotta get on testosterone. 6:06 Speaker 0: It'll change your life, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, Wow, I never even thought that. You know what I mean? So lo and behold, I went in and got my testosterone and just my hormones checked, I was around 300. 6:19 Speaker 0: So, 6:20 Speaker 0: that answered my question. Was like, Wow. Okay. So, I got on testosterone replacement, 6:25 Speaker 0: give or take, probably about 39, give or take. And 1 of those stories, man, it changed my life. It literally makes you feel like a man again. You feel your cloudy headedness goes, your sex drive obviously increases, but that's not even the best part. Your vigor comes back. 6:43 Speaker 0: Just have energy. Again, like Will said, 6:46 Speaker 0: if you're low testosterone, you're going to have an uphill climb trying to lose weight, especially if you're 40. 6:53 Speaker 0: If you're 40 and you have low testosterone, 6:56 Speaker 0: 1, you probably feel like absolute crap like I just told you. That is not how we're supposed to live, gentlemen. It is not how we're supposed to live. It is an easy fix. 7:08 Speaker 0: Go get your testosterone or go get your hormones checked, man. Just at least know where you're at. Chances are you are going to have low testosterone. 7:16 Speaker 0: Why? It's just common today, man, especially with the food we eat and just some of the toxins in the air. Let's just be honest, I won't go in left field, I'll spare you, but our testosterone 7:27 Speaker 0: levels are plummeting 7:29 Speaker 0: and that is what it is. I had a fitness channel, so I had a very eye opening experience with this. I worked with a lot of men, 7:38 Speaker 0: hundreds at this point. 7:40 Speaker 0: I would say men over 40 was who I worked with, so it was men like me. Most 7:47 Speaker 0: of them, I would say probably 60% were already on testosterone. So a lot of them already were ahead of the curve with that, but the ones that weren't, this is a true story. I would have them get their blood work tested, done, 7:59 Speaker 0: and 9 out of 10 of them were 300 or if not a lot lower. And that 8:05 Speaker 0: is a huge, huge problem. 8:08 Speaker 0: It's just not how you are supposed to be. 8:11 Speaker 0: So, that was my experience on testosterone replacement. 8:15 Speaker 1: And, you're right. I mean, you do not have to live like that, guys. No, you do not. It's an easy fix. Yeah. And it's for reference, I guess this is a lot of people are going to their doctors, right? So generally as 8:29 Speaker 1: a teenager, men 8:32 Speaker 1: 18 to 25 or so, our testosterone, like nanograms per deciliter on 8:37 Speaker 1: a blood test should be around 1000 nanograms 8:41 Speaker 1: deciliter, 8:42 Speaker 1: maybe 1,200. 8:43 Speaker 1: Okay? So that's like optimal high. 8:47 Speaker 1: Low, low, low is, 8:50 Speaker 1: you know, less than 200 or 300. I know these HMOs 8:54 Speaker 1: have 8:55 Speaker 1: their doctors, they're like prescribing, like, they're not allowed to prescribe anything unless you're like below 2 50 or something like that. And at 2 50, you're miserable. You haven't had an erection in a month. You 9:05 Speaker 1: barely wanna get out of bed. Of course. It's also note to note, 9:10 Speaker 1: your total testosterone is not really the most important part. Right? You should be getting a total testosterone 9:17 Speaker 1: check and a free testosterone 9:20 Speaker 1: reading because that's what matters, really. Your free testosterone is the only stuff that you can actually use that can bind to your receptors and 9:28 Speaker 1: and will actually work in your body. So 9:32 Speaker 1: that is generally, I try to keep mine about 800, 900 to 1000. I'm not saying that's right or wrong. I know doctors that that's their goal for patients. 9:44 Speaker 1: I know some people try to keep it, you know, doctors will try to keep it lower. There is a scale. You can find a scale on the internet somewhere that says, at a 9:54 Speaker 1: certain age, this is where your testosterone probably should be. 9:58 Speaker 1: But yeah, dude, just in our in today's 10:02 Speaker 1: world, all the unhealthy stuff that we eat, 10:05 Speaker 1: stressors, right? I also have been sober for 5 years or so, and drugs and alcohol just destroy, especially opiates, destroy 10:12 Speaker 1: your natural testosterone output. 10:15 Speaker 1: And it's tough to get back, and it's tough it's like a domino effect, dude. The more and people 10:21 Speaker 1: the less testosterone you have, the more estrogen you have, the more fat you have, and then the harder it is to get your testosterone 10:26 Speaker 1: up, right? And the harder it is to get your fat down. And so it just that divide just keeps growing. I 10:32 Speaker 1: suppose here is important things to know when you create when you inject testosterone. 10:37 Speaker 1: Our body, like I said before, we have this ratio. 10:41 Speaker 1: Body has this much test, this much estrogen. 10:43 Speaker 1: Our body likes that ratio. So when you increase your testosterone, 10:46 Speaker 1: your body, it aromatizes 10:48 Speaker 1: and converts 10:51 Speaker 1: some of this testosterone to estrogen. This increase of estrogen is all bad. 10:57 Speaker 1: There's no reason a man should have any higher estrogen than you have. Now, you need to have a little bit. 11:02 Speaker 1: That is very important 11:04 Speaker 1: for your cardiovascular ability and your sex drive. But 11:07 Speaker 1: you need to make sure that you manage that estrogen. 11:11 Speaker 1: Free symptoms, right? Sensitive nipples, which means gyno is happening, 11:16 Speaker 1: excess water retention or just general acne, even a lot of your shoulders and back. There's no reason to have that, folks. 11:24 Speaker 1: If you have that, you need to start taking an estrogen blocker. 11:29 Speaker 1: And that's an easy, easy fix, right? And when left unchecked, it can get bad. And that's where a lot of these horror stories come from. So, it's just out of ignorance. 11:38 Speaker 1: So do yourselves a favor. 11:40 Speaker 1: They're not bad. I see people on the internet bragging about, Oh, I've never, know, bodybuilder. I've never taken an estrogen blocker. Bullshit. I 11:48 Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I've worked with thousands of- Liar. Never seen anybody running over 500 megas of tests, like, not need an estrogen blocker. Oh, man. No way. DBAW. 11:58 Speaker 1: Yeah. So just like, I don't know, don't believe in the hype. Do but everybody's body is different, 12:03 Speaker 1: and you need to do what's necessary 12:05 Speaker 1: to have no side effects, 12:07 Speaker 1: no estrogenic side effects, 12:10 Speaker 1: but still feel good and be having enough testosterone. 12:13 Speaker 0: Yeah. So if you're new to testosterone replacement, are you thinking about it? 12:18 Speaker 0: Just know these things take time. I would advise you to dig into this and study it. We've been doing it for a long time and 12:26 Speaker 0: it didn't come overnight. 12:27 Speaker 0: There's a lot of trial and error that comes along with it because we've said it so many times, but it takes 12:35 Speaker 0: a while for us to find our sweet spot. I've said it numerous times, my sweet spot is around the 900 mark, 12:41 Speaker 0: as Will just said, generally speaking, testosterone around a 25 give or take, roughly, it seems to be when I'm running the best. 12:49 Speaker 0: But as I said in the last podcast, the Q and A, you know, I am 12:53 Speaker 0: my testosterone converted to estrogen from right away. I was highly, highly gynocholamosia. 12:59 Speaker 0: I've 13:01 Speaker 0: worked around that for years and I just had to take time to figure out that sweet spot. I mean, ask Will. I mean, we work together on it because we've been buddies a long time 13:10 Speaker 0: around it forever. 13:12 Speaker 0: It took a long time. So, for those of you that are like me, some of you, 13:17 Speaker 0: that testosterone's 13:19 Speaker 0: gonna convert right away to estrogen 13:21 Speaker 0: and you need to figure it out. You need to have like 13:24 Speaker 0: a Rimadex or something like that 13:26 Speaker 0: in handy because you're injecting hormones obviously into you and you're going to change your body and that's just what's going to happen. 13:33 Speaker 0: So it takes time to 13:36 Speaker 0: get the hormones. 13:37 Speaker 0: You inject hormones, you got to kind of get them into that sweet spot And that's going to take time, man. It's just the way it is. 13:44 Speaker 0: But once you find that sweet spot, I'm 48 years old, I'm in the best shape of my life, and I've been in great shape since 13:52 Speaker 0: high school. 13:53 Speaker 0: It is, And I've never felt better. Stax Drive is still running strong. 14:00 Speaker 0: So you can do that too, man. You are not supposed to feel like shit. You are not supposed to feel like shit, gentlemen. You just got to get your hormones in line. If you're overweight, if you feel sluggish and you can't, you have no vigor, you're cloudy headed, most likely have low testosterone, 14:15 Speaker 0: so you need to go get your blood work and check it out. Know what I mean? And you're not going to be able to lose that weight unless 14:20 Speaker 0: you get your hormones fixed. 14:22 Speaker 0: That's upfront. Get your hormones fixed, period. 14:26 Speaker 1: And like, some people, hey, you just might be like J. D. We're like, you just can't do more than 200 mg 14:32 Speaker 1: a week. 14:34 Speaker 1: You just can't be like, your estrogen is just too crazy, and that is what it is, man. No matter how many estrogen blockers you take, it won't 14:41 Speaker 1: kill off enough estrogen. 14:43 Speaker 1: Whatever. 14:45 Speaker 1: Still find it works. Mostly, indeed, less is more. Less is more, less is more. Most people are just blasting way too much. And I mean, I still there's a limit of how much you can I mean, the testosterone has to connect to your androgen receptors, right? They're only so big. They're only so much testosterone can actually grab on. And so, 15:04 Speaker 1: I don't know. That number is debatable, 15:06 Speaker 1: but 15:07 Speaker 1: I don't see any, I don't know, maybe 607 hundred milligrams maximum weekly 15:12 Speaker 1: can a person actually receive? And that's a and that's really high-tech. That's a lot. People do a lot more than that. But yes. 15:21 Speaker 0: So I think we wanted to talk about different esters. And- Yeah. Let's talk about some esters. I was gonna say that. Let's you loved you're you're good at that. Let's break down the esters for people. Sure. So, guys, every you'll see testosterone come in different 15:35 Speaker 1: forms and different numbers. So there's like 15:38 Speaker 1: the main ones you're going see is testosterone propionate, 15:41 Speaker 1: test prop, and usually is dosed at 100 mg/ml. 15:45 Speaker 1: So all of these, it will say, you know, the drug testosterone, 15:49 Speaker 1: then the ester that it is wrapped in, which is essentially the delivery system which determines how fast or slow 15:56 Speaker 1: it is being released in your bloodstream for you to use. Think of it as just like a 16:00 Speaker 1: long acting or a fast acting pill, okay? 16:05 Speaker 1: And 16:06 Speaker 1: then there will always be the scientists have figured out long ago, right, that 16:11 Speaker 1: certain ester a person's 16:13 Speaker 1: muscle can only handle a certain amount of testosterone in a certain ester. So test propionate, 16:19 Speaker 1: well, let's just start from the test. Acetate 16:22 Speaker 1: is like 24 hours in you, out of you. And this is their active 16:26 Speaker 1: 0.5 life. So there's still a little bit lingering in you, but you're not really feeling it. 16:31 Speaker 1: And then there's test propionate, which is more popular. It's 24 to 48 hours, in you and out of you. Then phenylpropionate, 16:38 Speaker 1: which is 3 to 4 days. Okay? These are all up for debate too, but these are just general numbers. You ask 30 16:46 Speaker 1: people, you're gonna get, I don't know, 10 different answers. 16:50 Speaker 1: And then isocaproate, 16:52 Speaker 1: which is like 4 to 5 days. 16:55 Speaker 1: Then you have your test endothate and test siponate. Test siponate is generally what every doctor in The United States prescribes. 17:01 Speaker 1: Test what every doctor in the rest of the world prescribes. 17:06 Speaker 1: Testenantate endothate is usually the beginning, 17:09 Speaker 1: the beginner 17:10 Speaker 1: ester for a lot of bodybuilders or just recreational users. 17:14 Speaker 1: If they're, I guess, testcipionate, I would say about 17:18 Speaker 1: 5 to 6 days. Test Enanthate is 6 to 7 days. 17:24 Speaker 1: That's how 17:25 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's those active 0.5 lives. And then we have 17:29 Speaker 1: decanoate. 17:30 Speaker 1: Let's see. Yeah. Decanoate, 17:32 Speaker 1: 7 to 10 days. And then undecanoate, 17:36 Speaker 1: which is about 20 days. Those are less You're not really gonna see those much, 17:42 Speaker 1: but the main ones you're gonna see is test prop, test antithate, 17:46 Speaker 1: and test siponate. 17:47 Speaker 1: Okay? 17:48 Speaker 1: Think of this, guys. Like, it's all the same drug. There isn't some people who say, Well, I heard this 1 doesn't aromatize. Bullshit. They all it's the same damn drug. The only difference is how fast it gets in you and then how fast it gets out of you. Now, 18:02 Speaker 1: the faster esters are always going to be dosed lower. So a test propped is going to be dosed at 100 mg/ml 18:09 Speaker 1: because 18:10 Speaker 1: our body naturally filters out 18:13 Speaker 1: a lot of this, a lot of the drug that gets put in us, okay? 18:17 Speaker 1: But if it's that fast getting out into you, our body does not have time to filter anything out, and you're getting about 100% 18:24 Speaker 1: of that drug. 18:26 Speaker 1: It may hurt a little bit more, too. Faster esters tend to hurt more and blends because you're putting in 2 different, 3 different esters. 18:34 Speaker 1: Tescipionate 18:35 Speaker 1: and test Eninthate, 18:36 Speaker 1: generally doctors test SIPs 200 18:39 Speaker 1: mgs per milliliter. 18:41 Speaker 1: I prefer it at 2 50. Teseninthate 18:44 Speaker 1: is usually more like 300, but ranges from 200 to 300. 18:49 Speaker 1: Those are go your body since it's taking 6 days to get in you, your body is filtering a lot of that out. So, really, you're probably getting only about 60% 18:58 Speaker 1: of it. So 19:00 Speaker 1: it actually equals basically a bottle of test propionate. So, people say, Well, shit, testcipionate, I get twice as much. 19:07 Speaker 1: Why wouldn't I do that over test prop? Sorry, guys. They equal about the same thing. Same thing with, you know, Mastron E versus Mastron P. Trend A is Trend E. You will always see the long ester is dosed about twice as high as the fast ester. But guess what? In the end, 19:23 Speaker 1: when it all boils down, you're getting about the same exact amount of the actual drug. Now, the longer the ester, okay, it's going to compound on itself. Now, even though, for example, siponate, 19:36 Speaker 1: you should say, Hey, a lot of doctors say, Just do it once a week, right? Hey, it's in you for 6 days, okay? But if you look at a graph, right, it's in you, and then it is slowly dissipating, 19:45 Speaker 1: right? And then at the end of those 6 days, then we do it again. That's not good. We do not 19:51 Speaker 1: want peaks or valleys in your hormones because everything is predicated on another thing, 19:56 Speaker 1: and it's going to change a whole bunch of different hormones down the line, and that's not good news for you. So even though it's in you for 6, 7 days, I would still do that testiopianate, 20:05 Speaker 1: testi twice a week. So we want these little peaks and valleys. Now, it will start to compound 20:11 Speaker 1: on themselves. 20:12 Speaker 1: So after about a month, your testosterone levels will be higher than, let's say, you did test propionate 20:18 Speaker 1: for a month, which is in you, out of you, in you, out of you. 20:22 Speaker 1: Cool. That'll be higher. You'll get a little bit better results, right? But guess what? Guess what lingers also is any side effects, right? The estrogen buildup will build up more and more and more as you get down the road, as opposed to a fast ester in you, out of you, 20:37 Speaker 1: less side effects generally. 20:39 Speaker 1: But still, it's the same damn drug. It's still trying to produce the same things. 20:45 Speaker 1: And hopefully 20:46 Speaker 1: that helps out. There are blends. My personal favorite is sustenone, 20:51 Speaker 1: which comes from sustained 20:53 Speaker 1: release, and it's usually a blend of test prop, phenol prop, isocaproate, 20:58 Speaker 1: and 20:59 Speaker 1: Decanoate. 21:01 Speaker 1: So you get, 21:03 Speaker 1: right now, immediately, 24 hours, 2 to 3 days, then hits you, 4 to 5 days, then hits you, and then 7 to 10 days. 21:10 Speaker 1: So I don't know. I like it because it stays in me, you know, with the longer ester, 21:15 Speaker 1: but I also kind of get a little bit of a a rush when I do it. 21:20 Speaker 1: But those fast esters, you better be doing them at least 3 days a week, 21:24 Speaker 1: if not every day, 21:26 Speaker 1: whereas the slower, longer esters, twice a week, but I wouldn't do them once a week. The only reason doctors say once a week is because people don't like stabbing themselves with needle, no doubt. Nobody does. But it's an easier sell if you only have to convince somebody to do it once a week. Right. 21:41 Speaker 0: I don't think it's as effective. You do it once a week though. Yeah, I knew I've changed it. I've gone to Monday, Wednesday, Friday. I 21:48 Speaker 0: go all over the board. It's of contingent upon 21:52 Speaker 0: how much I'm sick of pinning. 21:54 Speaker 0: Know, if you're starting to if you're doing pinning Monday, Wednesday, Friday, which I have changed now, currently doing, 22:00 Speaker 0: because this is a better way to do it, but I'll do that for a while until I just get so tired of pinning Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then I'll just go to once a week. But, know, for somebody, if you're like me that is gyno 22:11 Speaker 0: prone, 22:12 Speaker 0: it is a little bit better to spread it out because you're not getting any big blasts in 1 day. 22:17 Speaker 0: At least my experience with it, you got a little bit less throughout the week. You're doing a little bit less of it. So that will help for people that are gynoprone like me. 22:25 Speaker 0: I do notice a difference when I do it once a week. I did that for a long time just because I was just sick of pinning so much, so I just would do it every Monday, keep it simple. 22:33 Speaker 0: We've also talked about 22:35 Speaker 0: injection sites. For 22:37 Speaker 0: me, I've done it also everywhere. My doctor that 22:42 Speaker 0: I don't get that type of, I don't get my testosterone from the pharmacy anymore because it's seed oils. But anyways, when I used to go to the doctor for that, he suggested 22:51 Speaker 0: SubQ, 22:52 Speaker 0: which I had never heard. And then I went home and researched it, and there's good proof that it works well, you know, I mean, but I'll be honest with you, did it for a little, I don't even know, maybe did it for like a week. 23:03 Speaker 0: Ejecting oil into your stomach sucks, so I will never do it again. But some people like to do that. I've done it mainly, I think, in my top part of my buttocks. 23:13 Speaker 0: I did that for years. Now I'm kind of tired of that, so I've been pinning back part of my shoulder with a small little shoulder pin. Anybody that follows my channels, I just dropped a video on that today 23:24 Speaker 0: on my Instagram. 23:26 Speaker 0: So you want to move it around, 23:29 Speaker 0: something I talked about, because I was getting so many dams about PIP, 23:33 Speaker 0: which is if you inject oil into 23:37 Speaker 0: your butt or your shoulder or something, get like a welt or like a sore spot. 23:40 Speaker 0: It happens to the best of us. It's 23:43 Speaker 0: almost unavoidable. 23:44 Speaker 0: 1 of the best ways to avoid it is 23:48 Speaker 0: when you pull out your testosterone 23:51 Speaker 0: into the vial, you wanna run it under warm water. I'll leave it in the sink for a minute or 2 and forget about it and then come back and inject it. Honestly, since I've been doing that, I don't ever really get PIP. 24:02 Speaker 0: But if you don't do that, you probably will. It's part of the game. What do you think about PIP? I think that so it all depends. Just 24:11 Speaker 1: randomly, you can just happen to hit a nerve 24:15 Speaker 1: or a different blood vessel. 24:17 Speaker 1: Just put it in some weird spot and all of a sudden, 1 day you got PIP and it's just like pain at 24:24 Speaker 1: the point of injection now, 24:27 Speaker 1: pain is the injection point. 24:28 Speaker 1: There's that. There's also like if you Like I said, we have figured out what 24:34 Speaker 1: dosing 24:35 Speaker 1: is acceptable 24:36 Speaker 1: for different esters. 24:38 Speaker 1: Usually, a big reason people get PIP is their stuff is dosed too high for the ester. So if somebody were to do test E350, 24:46 Speaker 1: right, 24:47 Speaker 1: that's going to make it hurt really bad. Just too densely 24:53 Speaker 1: packed with testosterone. 24:54 Speaker 1: Don't do it. That's why they make them blends, right? That's why if you test 400, 24:59 Speaker 1: it's usually it's not going to be 1 ester of 400. It's going be 200 of sip, 200 mg of test E because that's really all we can 25:07 Speaker 1: take without it hurting really bad. Another 25:10 Speaker 1: problem is people don't put it too deep enough 25:13 Speaker 1: They 25:14 Speaker 1: you're gonna you might get a welt or red spot. People don't realize it needs to get deep in your muscle. I'm just pointing at my shoulder because that burched, but right? Glut. 25:22 Speaker 1: Glut, the biggest most people mistake people make is not going deep enough. 25:27 Speaker 1: That oil needs to get deep in you. 25:30 Speaker 1: And, yeah, 25:31 Speaker 1: dude, I when I do my injection, do it. I just kind of put my knuckle in whatever in the muscle and just and rub it in. Right? Goal is to and then go be active. You know? Do not just inject and then lay down and do nothing. Think about it. You're injecting this foreign oil into your body, right? You got to, like, get it dispersed in you, into your blood and move it. So, 25:51 Speaker 1: I'm always going to inject, rub it in and go to the gym. My blood, you know, my heart starts pumping, blood starts pumping, and that stuff just gets dispersed throughout my body. 26:02 Speaker 1: You know, another thing I know that you had you used a pellet for a while. Like, here's another method. I'm starting to see a lot of, like, older women doing testosterone 26:10 Speaker 1: pellets. 26:11 Speaker 1: When I say older, maybe like 45. 26:16 Speaker 0: Even- The place when I went to get that, because I didn't, I was just not wanting to pin all the time. I'd read about it and I'm like, all right. So I went to, and my buddy had suggested that he was doing it and he loved it. And 26:26 Speaker 0: so I went to this place, this doctor, and it was mainly for women, know, it's just a replacement for women. 26:32 Speaker 0: But anyways, I got the pellets and I did it for a bit. My body, for some reason, would have rejected and tried to push them out. He said, It's very, very uncommon. 26:40 Speaker 0: Of course, that was me. So that was a pain in the ass. The injection site would literally cut 26:45 Speaker 0: you up and then stitch it. 26:48 Speaker 0: But those little pellets would try to get out for whatever reason for me. So I stopped doing that. I didn't want to deal with that. But there's a lot of good luck with that. If you're somebody that doesn't want to inject, you go to a doctor, 26:57 Speaker 0: it takes literally 5 minutes. You are implanted with pellets and they slowly release into your body. If you're an active person, 27:05 Speaker 0: it will use those up quicker. 27:08 Speaker 0: So that's good. I've done that. You have creams. 27:11 Speaker 0: I wouldn't recommend it. 27:13 Speaker 0: A lot of doctors start there. I personally think that you should never do that. My 27:18 Speaker 1: opinion. Yeah. I mean, they'll work they'll work, but not not very well at all. Right? 27:23 Speaker 1: Mean, I think that's more like I think that's a good idea maybe for women, right, who 27:29 Speaker 1: who just cannot take as much testosterone as a man. But for a man, it's really gonna not do much. 27:35 Speaker 1: Probably the pellet too is like, cool, it's implanted and now you're stuck. There's no adjusting. 27:40 Speaker 1: Like we said, every person- You're in you. Is different. Like, there's no way to go increase or decrease the dose. 27:47 Speaker 1: They're just stuck with what it is. 27:50 Speaker 1: So, yeah, the creams, I mean, there's 27:53 Speaker 1: natural 27:54 Speaker 1: test boosters that you see everywhere that GNC or wherever sell. 28:00 Speaker 1: Those are just made naturally, in my opinion. I mean, those will never ever ever take you to, like, a super physiological 28:07 Speaker 1: level. K? They'll they'll work 28:09 Speaker 1: for I mean, they'll work okay 28:12 Speaker 1: for an older man who's 28:15 Speaker 1: who's levels are really low. 28:18 Speaker 1: That will yeah, cool. It'll bump him up a little bit, but it's never gonna take you kinda past where your natural threshold should be for your weight. Waste of money? Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think that, 28:30 Speaker 0: yes, I think that there's- are other ways, man. There are other ways do 28:35 Speaker 0: it. I mean, there's natural ways. I mean, diet's huge. If you're overweight, that's gonna affect you for sure. I mean, even like as woo woo as this sounds, walking outside with your feet on the ground because of energy, I've read stuff about that, whether you believe it or not, I've just read that. 28:51 Speaker 0: High fat diet helps, exercise, lifting heavy weights, those are things that can naturally increase your testosterone. Now, if you are at a like 300, will it get you to 900? 29:02 Speaker 0: Probably not. 29:04 Speaker 0: Again, in my opinion, if you're 40 and you have low testosterone, 29:08 Speaker 0: just get on testosterone, man. Like, dude, I don't know why you're fighting it. Now, I'll tell you this, 29:13 Speaker 0: 1 of the questions that I get almost daily through my DMs are, Can you come off of it? I was told you can't. Once you start on testosterone replacement, you can't. And that's not true. I know tons of men that have been on testosterone replacement 29:26 Speaker 0: for years that come off because their brides want to get pregnant and that's the way that they go about it. 29:33 Speaker 0: They choose for 29:34 Speaker 0: him coming off. 29:36 Speaker 0: You have to take certain things to help 29:39 Speaker 0: re light your balls and work it again. 29:43 Speaker 0: But you can, so I don't know where that big myth Now, if you've been on testosterone replacement for 20 years, that probably 29:49 Speaker 0: won't, 29:50 Speaker 0: you know, probably contingent upon how long that you're on testosterone. 29:54 Speaker 1: But again, everybody's a science project. It's going to be different. I mean, I think it comes from like, look, dude, if you're on the longer you're on, okay, and the higher dose that you are on, 30:05 Speaker 1: yeah, there's again, there is a little bit there's a letdown when you stop. Right? Because this is now telling your body to slow its natural production down. So 30:14 Speaker 1: when you just stop giving it to yourself, 30:17 Speaker 1: you're not gonna feel as good. 30:20 Speaker 1: I don't know- Well, you're like, Shit. What do Kind mean? You're like, 30:23 Speaker 1: of like withdrawal symptoms, 30:25 Speaker 1: basically. There's 30:27 Speaker 1: But there are drugs to take, HCG and then clomiphene, that really work. There's what we do, like, for a post cycle. Okay. A post cycle would be pretty much the same thing as if you're on long term TRT. You wanna get off? Cool, but do some things to help you not feel that lull, that drop down let down period. 30:45 Speaker 1: But you can come off. Great. 30:48 Speaker 1: The sex drive might be effective for a week if you do HCG and clomiphene correct. We'll get you right back get you back up. You may not be as, you know, as great as when you were on it. Okay? That's the whole point of why would you be on it if you could not do it naturally. But you 31:03 Speaker 1: can come off of it. I know tons of people do. And that and then and at that point, it's actually even more important to lift heavy and keep eating correctly. 31:12 Speaker 1: Well, I understand, but it's hard because you just have Yeah. So the natural things that you can do lifting heavy. Right? Well, I guess here's the think of us back when we were in let's say 300 years ago, 400 years ago, our testosterone levels not that they were doing blood tests then, but 31:28 Speaker 1: they're 31:29 Speaker 1: we had such higher testosterone. Okay? Not because there wasn't so many processed foods, etcetera, but also we're just lazy and and 31:37 Speaker 1: fat nowadays. Right? Shit's done for us. When we were out there and we had to 31:41 Speaker 1: take a shower in freezing ass stream and we had to go chase animals down and kill them with our bare hands, 31:48 Speaker 1: we had to have sex in cold weather, right, in your little, like, hut, men were virile and had good natural testosterone. Okay? Yeah. Now that life's all comfortable and cushy, 31:58 Speaker 1: we don't. So the more you can simulate that 32:01 Speaker 1: by fasting, lifting heavy, cold plunges, 32:05 Speaker 1: heat, 32:07 Speaker 1: the better 32:08 Speaker 1: and stronger and more resilient you're going to be 32:11 Speaker 1: and the higher test. 32:13 Speaker 0: Yeah. So another thing that a lot of doctors will prescribe 32:17 Speaker 0: and, what I personally choose to do is we'll talk about HCG into the mix where, 32:23 Speaker 0: 2 reasons I think somebody should run the HCG with testosterone 32:28 Speaker 0: replacement is 1, it will help your balls from shrinking because as Will said, when you are injecting 32:34 Speaker 0: testosterone, 32:35 Speaker 0: it tells your balls, I don't need to do this anymore, so I'm good. So they start stop working probably, 32:41 Speaker 0: and if you do it long enough, they will start to shrink because they turned off. 32:45 Speaker 0: So HCG will stop that, it will help that. So that's 1 of the reasons I recommend it. 32:50 Speaker 0: Secondly, for any man like myself that is on testosterone replacement and trying to stay fertile and kind of keep that fertility, 33:00 Speaker 0: running it at higher doses, 33:02 Speaker 0: I've talked about it numerous times, but I've gotten my bride pregnant twice while staying on testosterone. 33:08 Speaker 0: Many think you cannot do it. I've done it twice. And Will and I have worked with numerous of our buddies and many other people to help them while staying Whether 33:18 Speaker 0: you choose to do that or not, 33:20 Speaker 0: can, it can be done. PEG is a great help. Now you want to run higher doses and my opinion, we might have a different opinion, 33:28 Speaker 0: anywhere 33:29 Speaker 0: 500 33:32 Speaker 0: IUs 3 times a week to 1000 33:35 Speaker 0: IUs a week. Like if you want to get the job done a little bit quicker, in my opinion, I would say go to 1000. Now, that's contingent upon pocketbook because you 33:45 Speaker 0: got to pay for that and it's not cheap. HCG is what it is, 33:50 Speaker 0: But that's what I've done. I'd probably do about 7 50 myself when I've tried to get my wife pregnant when I'm running it. It took me a good 9 months, both times to run it consistently. 33:59 Speaker 0: Now, do I run HCG 34:03 Speaker 0: like the testosterone in perpetuity? I do not. I generally speaking run it 34:07 Speaker 0: give or take about 2 months 34:10 Speaker 0: to keep my fertility, and then I kind of take a month, maybe 2 off, and then I run it again for 2 months. When I'm trying to have a baby, which we've been talking about it, if we really decide that's the role, I will 34:22 Speaker 0: be on it for a good 9 months at higher doses. I run about 500 IUs Monday, Wednesday, Friday when I'm on it. Agreed. Got anything on 34:32 Speaker 1: I think that there is a difference in my, you know, that between an actual like post cycle 34:40 Speaker 1: and taking 34:41 Speaker 1: it for TRT 34:42 Speaker 1: dose or fertility. 34:44 Speaker 1: And I believe that the TRT 34:47 Speaker 1: dose, HCG and fertility should be about the same 34:51 Speaker 1: range. I think 3 times a week. 34:53 Speaker 1: Honestly, the more the better, right? I guess the more the better. If you could do 1000 IUs 3 times a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, good for you. And I would do about 25 mg of Enclomiphene 35:04 Speaker 1: daily as well 35:06 Speaker 1: for fertility, and I would run that 35:10 Speaker 1: concurrent until the 35:11 Speaker 1: baby's born, until 35:13 Speaker 1: your wife's pregnant at least. Yes. You'll have a better, faster chance if you come off of the testosterone. But hell, I mean, I'm 9 for 9 of my friends wanting to get their rights pregnant, 35:23 Speaker 1: and I'd say that most of them didn't even come off testosterone. 35:27 Speaker 1: And it'd probably take a little bit longer. 35:29 Speaker 1: Now for 35:31 Speaker 1: and you're right, I guess. So TRT, if you're on long term TRT, I agree. I would do I wouldn't run it every single week, you know, for 10 years. 35:40 Speaker 1: I would go 35:42 Speaker 1: I would do about thousand 35:44 Speaker 1: IUs 35:45 Speaker 1: 3 times a week for 35:48 Speaker 1: 3 weeks and then give it a 2 week break and then do that again. Okay? Like 3 weeks, 2 weeks off. 3 weeks, 2 weeks off. If 35:56 Speaker 1: you're 35:59 Speaker 1: getting off of TRT or just getting off of a cycle, okay, same basic principle. This is still a 36:06 Speaker 1: PCT, 36:07 Speaker 1: a post cycle therapy. 36:09 Speaker 1: I would do 36:11 Speaker 1: 1000 mg 36:12 Speaker 1: daily or 1000 IUs daily 36:15 Speaker 1: for 10 days, 36:18 Speaker 1: maybe even to 20 days. And then for your Enclomiphene, 36:23 Speaker 1: would be taking Generally, Enclomiphene comes at 12.5 mg pills. I would say week 1, 3 pills a day. Week 2, 2 pills a day. 36:31 Speaker 1: Week 3 and 4, 1 pill a day. 36:35 Speaker 1: And 36:36 Speaker 1: that should be enough, right, to so if you're coming off completely off, right, 36:41 Speaker 1: you do those 36:43 Speaker 1: and you should feel pretty damn good. Shouldn't have much let down, and you should keep about 95% 36:48 Speaker 1: of all of those gains that 36:50 Speaker 1: you worked for. If you don't do that, you will lose 36:54 Speaker 1: a lot of the gains, right? Because if your testosterone just dips, 36:59 Speaker 1: your cortisol is going to scream to the top. Your muscle is just going to disintegrate 37:03 Speaker 1: off of you, 37:04 Speaker 1: and you will lose everything you tried for. Another thing is also when coming off completely, 37:09 Speaker 1: you ought to wait 10 days or so before you really start the HCG or the enclomiphene because the point is 37:16 Speaker 1: you need to let that testosterone get out of you before your nuts are even willing to listen to something to wake them up. So get it out until the nut's like, All right, dude, I need some help. And then you give them the Time to work. Yeah. 37:46 Speaker 1: Feel them again. It's hard to explain, but it's just what happens. You just start to feel alive again. 37:52 Speaker 1: True story. People ask me about like, Hey, should I take the HCG throughout my cycle? No, that answer 1 is no, because you're giving yourself so much tests and other things that 38:02 Speaker 1: your nuts are not listening. They're not being willing to wake up. No matter how much you do, they're not gonna they're not gonna change. Now, I also say, Hey, people doing 16 week cycle, right, in the last, like, 3 weeks, 38:12 Speaker 1: they'll tell me, Hey, I just don't feel nearly as good as when I started. Well, well, basically, because your natural production has just shut 38:21 Speaker 1: down. Right? It's down to the floor, so you not only you have no natural production, but you're still giving yourself a lot. 38:28 Speaker 1: I would say that if there is an acceptable time to run HCG while on cycle, it needs to be in the last 0.25, 38:35 Speaker 1: then I wouldn't be opposed to running running maybe a 10000 IU bottle 38:40 Speaker 1: and then coming off, waiting 10 days, and then running a proper post cycle after. 38:47 Speaker 1: Yeah, dude. I don't know, man. A good sense of health is like, generally, man, you should be having erections when you wake up in the morning. 38:54 Speaker 1: That's what- Remember we did that when you were a kid? Yes. 38:57 Speaker 1: So if you're not feeling that, 39:00 Speaker 1: there's you're not optimal. 39:02 Speaker 1: That's just a good I kind of judge my overall health too by down there. 39:07 Speaker 0: That's true. I mean, that's reading your body, man. So if like you're not, so that's telling your body. I mean, again, think it's easier. Anybody that's not on testosterone in their 40s, 39:17 Speaker 0: you feel like shit, you're tired, cloudy headed, you don't have vigor, you don't have sex drive, it's easy math. If you have fat around your nipple and area, that's estrogen, 39:26 Speaker 0: or it be. It could be high estrogen, again, like you said. I mean, these are things that your body just can 39:32 Speaker 0: be fixed. It'll take a little while. But 39:35 Speaker 0: man, you are not supposed to live at 300 testosterone. 39:39 Speaker 0: Dude, go fix it. I don't know why anybody would ever 39:43 Speaker 0: worry about testosterone. 39:45 Speaker 0: I would worry about having 300 testosterone. That's a problem in itself, dude. 39:49 Speaker 1: Huge problem. I mean and, you know, people say, hey. Well, shoot. Then you you gotta Depression. 39:54 Speaker 1: You know, you gotta do something the rest of your life. I wanna do it. Well, okay. Cool. I don't know. Personally, it's worth it for me. That's fine. I plan to do this as until I'm an old man. Yeah. 40:06 Speaker 0: Oh, well. 40:08 Speaker 0: Yeah. Things in life- I like feeling good. I like being able to get and stay in shape. Like, for example, remember how easy it was to stay in shape at 30? You're basically putting like the amount of testosterone that's in your body at 30. Remember how easy it was to lose weight at 30 and like stay in shape? Well, you can have that. It's easy. So the reason you can't because your testosterone levels plummeted and your hormones are off. So you can get back there very easily, gentlemen. And if you're going to tell me, well, it's going to kill me 5 it's going to take 5 years off my life. Oh, well, I didn't want those last 5 years anyway. 40:39 Speaker 0: Dude, bro, 40:41 Speaker 1: I'd 40:42 Speaker 1: rather live 40:43 Speaker 1: great 40:45 Speaker 1: while I'm here. 40:47 Speaker 0: Right. So I don't know, man. I think we covered a lot. I mean, we could probably talk about this particular subject forever, but I know the 40:53 Speaker 0: DMs that are flying through have been inundated with testosterone questions and PIP and stuff, so we wanted to kind of take a hard left away from the peptides for 1 41:01 Speaker 0: episode to talk about testosterone replacement, because getting back to peptides, very simply, they are amazing, we love them, they are enhancing your body in all forms contingent upon what peptide you take, but your hormones have to be optimized 1st 41:16 Speaker 0: and then they work 41:18 Speaker 0: amazingly. 41:18 Speaker 0: You are low to 300 testosterone run peptides, they'll probably work a little bit, but not like they can. 41:25 Speaker 0: Right. 41:26 Speaker 1: 100%. And we could go on for days. I mean, we could talk a lot longer if, 41:31 Speaker 0: I don't know, some pointed questions about more side effects and different drugs that combat certain side effects, etcetera, etcetera. Maybe we'll talk about that. Maybe you'll get some- We'll get some questions on the Q and A probably from this episode, which we welcome them, man. And again, we don't pretend to know all the answers to all of it. We've just been doing it for, as you can tell, a long time and a lot of trial and error on ourselves. Like I said, with my gynecomastia, 41:53 Speaker 0: it's taken me a long time to get that under wraps. I was heavily You know what mean? So it took years, 41:58 Speaker 0: literally years to get it really to where I don't even really take an AI anymore, believe it or not. 42:03 Speaker 0: And that's really huge for me, but it takes a long time to kind of understand your body, man. Yes. And, you know, we're talking about 42:11 Speaker 1: we're talking about this. Everybody, you're your own person. You do what you do is what we've is what we choose to do. The 1 thing that and I am happy to talk about this because I have heard too many times people come up to me and go, Will, you've, like, saved my life. I can't believe 42:26 Speaker 1: oh, I cannot believe that I was living and prepared to live the rest of my life like that. Right? It's been amazing. Hey, don't tell anybody that I'm taking this. Okay? It's like, You fucking 42:35 Speaker 1: asshole, man. You're going to tell me something just saved your life, but just don't let anybody else know so 42:42 Speaker 1: they can't get it. So I don't know. I just wish the stigma 42:46 Speaker 1: wasn't 42:47 Speaker 1: yes. 42:48 Speaker 0: That's getting a little better, man. But you wanna have a good time, look through my DMs, man. This guy's on testosterone replacement. 42:53 Speaker 0: So did I deny it? I mean, look it through my post, man. It's all over it. 42:58 Speaker 0: Like, Yeah. 42:59 Speaker 0: Is that an attack or is that a culpa, man? I don't know. That's because I'm being smart. You should too. 43:07 Speaker 0: I don't know, yeah, we 43:09 Speaker 0: can go on more, but hopefully this is helpful. Yeah, you know, this is just to kind of let everybody know, you know, the podcast is growing, so we want to kind of move some things around, I think, to what's going to be helpful for the podcast to grow. 43:20 Speaker 0: And just in itself, I think it's going be a better flow. So what we're going to be doing 43:24 Speaker 0: is dropping 43:26 Speaker 0: the podcast 43:27 Speaker 0: now on Monday, 43:29 Speaker 0: and we will be doing the Q and A on Thursday, dropping it on Thursday. So that will be starting next week, and I think that's gonna be a better flow. 43:39 Speaker 0: So I'll be good with my social media channels on putting the link out there for the Q and A. I'll even actually probably post that today just for fun. 43:47 Speaker 0: And that's what the new protocol is gonna be. I'm assuming there's gonna be a lot of questions from this episode leading into the Q and A, but like I said, we welcome it, man. We love this stuff. 43:56 Speaker 0: Yes, sir. You got anything else, big dog? I think that's it, man. That's all I got. All right, guys. We will catch you on the next round. Take care. Good night.